Recognise any of these surnames?

Re: Recognise any of these surnames?

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 17:39:06 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]Vetsurgeon.org's first scientific paper? Arlo, where's the booze when you need it? [/quote]

Wow. Congratulations Hannah and Michael.

Re: Recognise any of these surnames?

HMC — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 16:51:13 GMT

[quote user="Alex Allen"]Just some thoughts during a 5min coffee break![/quote]

Interesting thoughts Alex. There have been differing reports on the longevity of the antibody response: Kunstyr et al (1986) found some rapid returns to seronegativity but there were also 2 studies (Sobottka et al., 2001 and Jeklova et al., 2010) that showed very long persistence (it's all in the VR paper).

The next study will involve PCR but financial constraints prevented that this time.

Re: Recognise any of these surnames?

Alex Allen — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 10:35:42 GMT

I have to confess to not having any knowledge of the pathophysiology of E. cuniculi but here's some random thoughts which might explain some of your observations:

1. Th2 humoral immune responses may be enhancing the infection by either direct or indirect means. This is seen is several diseases from Dengue fever to Leishmania protozoa. Antibody dependent enhancement or Th2 pathway features can promote or support parasites and this may explain the low seroprevalence in the wild population. Natural selection of Th1 bias or balanced Th1/2 response individuals may mean high antibody titres are rarer in the wild.

2. Circulating antibodies are short lived in some animals - seen with Leptospirosis antibodies commonly dwindling within a few weeks of exposure but reappearing when challenged if memory cells still in existence.

3. Th1 bias individuals may control parasite invasion more swiftly and competently before Th2 (humoral) response becomes established. (I did find some references stating that cell mediated responses (CD8+ particularly) are key to protection / resolution of infection.)

Just some thoughts during a 5min coffee break!

Re: Recognise any of these surnames?

Alex Gough — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 10:26:08 GMT

Well done Hannah and Michael.

Re: Recognise any of these surnames?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 09:06:59 GMT

This begs the question that if there is no pool of E. cuniculi in the wild rabbit population and therefore no spread to domestic rabbits either by direct or indirect contact, where does the disease come from in domestic rabbits? Presumably it has to be endemic in breeding populations and is passed vertically or horizontally from affected dams to offspring like cat flu. This of course should in theory give the opportunity to rid the pet rabbit population of the disease by testing and rigorous control of breeding. Clearly will never happen as the industry is totally unregulated and rabbit breeders make cat and dog breeders look like saints!

Another question that begs is that if this applies to E. cuniculi what other rabbit diseases we see are also purely in the domestic population? We've all seen wild rabbits with myxomatosis and its epidemiology is well established but what about VMD? Has anyone ever diagnosed VMD in wild rabbits? Come to think of it has anyone diagnosed a case in a pet rabbit by actually positively identifying it as a cause? - I haven't!

Which finally begs the question: are we wasting our time vaccinating and routinely pre-emptively treating pet rabbits against these diseases and are we the victims of scaremongering/clever promotion by pharmaceutical companies?!

Re: Recognise any of these surnames?

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 21:31:22 GMT

Vetsurgeon.org's first scientific paper? Arlo, where's the booze when you need it?

Re: Recognise any of these surnames?

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 21:20:28 GMT

I collected the samples for Hannah. We've never met in real life nor even spoken on the telephone.The collaboration is 100% down to the forum.

Realistically it's a convenience sample of what I had available. We are in an area of huge wild rabbit population density and what I would have thought were ideal conditions for the spread of the parasite. We don't see many rabbits but we have diagnosed E.cuniculi in pet rabbits in this area. I've seen occasional animals that looked 'neurological' when out walking my dogs in this area. Hannah secured funding for 60 rabbits, so that is what I collected.

I think it is something that would be very exciting to do on a much larger scale, but you'd need statistically significant samples distributed countrywide. Many areas don't have flourishing wild rabbit populations. The budget and effort would be immense.

There is nothing to suggest that If I had driven 5 miles further away the findings may have been different.

I expected that some of the samples would have been positive. I'm pleased they were not.

Re: Recognise any of these surnames?

HMC — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 18:36:56 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

So does this imply that E.cuniculi is not present in the wild rabbit population and is purely a disease of pet rabbits? Or even that we are grossly over-diagnosing it purely on the presence of suspicious clinical symptoms?

[/quote]

My personal opinion is that it is present (and I want to be the first to find it, of course). I also think that the seroprevalence in the pet rabbit population is lower than what studies have shown and that it is time to repeat those studies. Sure, we see it a lot, but I also get a lot of negative serologies from pet rabbits. I do not see why wild rabbits should not suffer E. cuniculi as I assume the genetics of wild and domestic are probably pretty similar- and there is very limited information to indicate that there are breed predispositions to it.

Re: Recognise any of these surnames?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 18:10:53 GMT

Congrats

Wynne

Re: Recognise any of these surnames?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 18:05:14 GMT

Re: Recognise any of these surnames?

HMC — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 17:19:05 GMT

Thanks. In a nutshell, sampled 60 rabbits and tested for both IgG and IgM antibodies and all negative.

Re: Recognise any of these surnames?

James Laidlaw — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 17:03:49 GMT

Congrats on being published!

What were the results?