Microchip reaction?

Re: Microchip reaction?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 21:12:21 GMT

OK. Please don't get angry- I am genuinely confused with your logic. I guess you are not understanding my confusion and I'm not understanding why you feel a tumour will be less invasive into deeper tissues on the rump than in the scruff. By 'rump', do you mean the area around the gluteals?

I can understand why people choose to vaccinate in limb extremities....limb amputation is always an option.

Re: Microchip reaction?

Gerry Henry — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 19:02:54 GMT

FFS, because removing soft tissue is relatively easy and removing bone/muscle is difficult.

Re: Microchip reaction?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 18:31:03 GMT

So why does a VSS invade deeper tissues in the scruff and not in the rump. There may be logic here but I'm missing it!

Re: Microchip reaction?

Gerry Henry — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 18:24:52 GMT

Skin, fat, muscle

Dorsal spinous processes, dorsal scapulae.

Re: Microchip reaction?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 13:36:35 GMT

But how would resecting one from the rump be any easier.

I've vaccinated thousands of cats, but only seen one scruff sarcoma.

Re: Microchip reaction?

Gerry Henry — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 13:31:53 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Gerry Henry"]Always in the rump and yes I do discuss ISS[/quote]

Sorry if this is a daft question...but why do you inject in the rump, as preferable to the scruff?

[/quote]

Because I've had to resect an ISS from the scruff and its a nightmare.

Re: Microchip reaction?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 11:40:00 GMT

[quote user="Luca Poddighe"]

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]Has anyone ever seen a diabetic cat receiving regular insulin injections with an injection site sarcoma?[/quote]

I haven't

[/quote]Probably because a) statistically the numbers are very low and b) they don't live long enough because owners are not good at complying, and/or many vets are not good at following an effective protocol of monitoring correctly, and most cats don't develop DM until middle age.

Re: Microchip reaction?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 11:36:19 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]Why not lateral flank - easier to resect without amputating a limb?[/quote]Because even in the flank you cannot guarantee a margin free resection whereas you pretty well can with a limb albeit it depends on your definition of rump. Mine is the gluteal muscle which is still leaving an area difficult to resect totally. Preferred site wound be lower limb.

But it bothers me that if told why we are recommending this, significant numbers of pet owners are going to stop vaccinating their pets and there will far more dying of parvovirus or panleukopaenia than cancer! A bit like the MMR vaccine scare. I for one keep vaccinating in the scruff but will advice owners of predominantly indoor cats that giving the FelV vaccine every year carries more risk than the disease itself.

Re: Microchip reaction?

James Laidlaw — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 10:25:14 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Gerry Henry"]Always in the rump and yes I do discuss ISS[/quote]

Sorry if this is a daft question...but why do you inject in the rump, as preferable to the scruff?

[/quote]

Why not lateral flank - easier to resect without amputating a limb?

[/quote]

This is what I have been doing following CPD and discussion with colleagues over the last 3-4 years. At BSAVA this year, Mike Lappin was discussing this and it would appear that flank sarcomas may end up being more difficult to resect than dorsal scapula located ones!?!?!? They are now vaccinating as distal in the leg or tail as possible.

I'm not sure I want to change again, and prefer that at least I can vary the site from one side to the other annually... This advice may yet change again in the next 1-5 years, who knows...

Re: Microchip reaction?

Luca Poddighe — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 09:03:29 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]Has anyone ever seen a diabetic cat receiving regular insulin injections with an injection site sarcoma?[/quote]

I haven't

Re: Microchip reaction?

Thomas Johnson — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 09:01:30 GMT

[quote user="Gerry Henry"]

Cat, been with me since kitten, never had scruff injection because I never inject in the scruff, presented 9yrs of age with sarcoma midline scapular declivity, and right in the very middle an identichip.

[/quote]

I went to a CPD talk a couple of years ago and the speaker (sorry, I can't remember who it was) suggested that some cats are prone to developing sarcomas after trauma, giving the example of ocular post-traumatic sarcomas. They also wondered whether this was due to a genetic predisposition.

Has anyone ever seen a diabetic cat receiving regular insulin injections with an injection site sarcoma?

Re: Microchip reaction?

Rob Loxley — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 23:49:55 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Gerry Henry"]Always in the rump and yes I do discuss ISS[/quote]

Sorry if this is a daft question...but why do you inject in the rump, as preferable to the scruff?

[/quote]

Why not lateral flank - easier to resect without amputating a limb?

Re: Microchip reaction?

mariette asselbergs — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 22:41:00 GMT

I had a cockerpoo, microchipped 6 months earlier, vaccinated in February, presented in beginning of May with a 5 cm diameter non painful swelling between the shoulderblades, which had come up in a few days, no fluid, FNA showed inflammation, chip right in the middle, no history of fight or trauma. Treated with NSAIDs and better in a week.

No idea if it was related to the chip or not. But sounds a bit like the OP's case.

Mariette

Re: Microchip reaction?

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 21:51:49 GMT

[quote user="Gerry Henry"]Always in the rump and yes I do discuss ISS[/quote]

Sorry if this is a daft question...but why do you inject in the rump, as preferable to the scruff?

Re: Microchip reaction?

Gerry Henry — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 18:18:34 GMT

Always in the rump and yes I do discuss ISS; I think the incidence of microchip ISS will remain low though I anticipate an increase after compulsory chipping. Depending on outcomes it might well be that we are chipping different parts of the body in five or ten years.

Re: Microchip reaction?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 14:12:55 GMT

[quote user="Gerry Henry"]I never inject in the scruff[/quote]So where do you inject? Presumably you tell the owner why, 'because the vaccine might give your cat cancer'? How do they take that? And are you going to implant microchips elsewhere given there now seems to be about an equal chance of getting an injection site sarcoma?

Re: Microchip reaction?

Sally Everitt — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 13:39:36 GMT

Hi Rebecca,

I realise that you cannot be sure if the reaction that you are seeing is related to the microchip, but if you think that it might be there is now a legal requirement to report adverse reactions related to microchips.

This is managed by the VMD, alonside advsrese reactions to pharmaceuticals, and can be done online

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/microchip-adverse-event-reporting-scheme

Sally Everitt

Head of Scientific Policy - BSAVA

Re: Microchip reaction?

Gerry Henry — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 13:19:09 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]

[quote user="Gerry Henry"]

If the chip is 'totally inert' how can it cause injection site sarcomas ?

[/quote]

who says they do? It's hardly the same concept as yearly vaccination with adjuvants. Sorry i've never heard that particular scare story - any references?

[/quote]

Re: Microchip reaction?

Bob Russell — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 09:32:33 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"] Have to say one had provoked a reaction. [/quote]What to the bite or the broken chip - the former I presume.

[/quote]

Should have said 'not one' has caused a reaction! Seen them as incidental findings on X-ray.

Re: Microchip reaction?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 09:24:28 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]There are a few case reports [/quote]Better un-suggest my first post and give it a solitary red star then!

Re: Microchip reaction?

Rob Loxley — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 21:57:36 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]Sorry i've never heard that particular scare story - any references?[/quote]

There are a few case reports e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21535253 ; http://vet.sagepub.com/content/43/4/545.short

Re: Microchip reaction?

Stephen Courtney — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 21:24:48 GMT

[quote user="Gerry Henry"]

If the chip is 'totally inert' how can it cause injection site sarcomas ?

[/quote]

who says they do? It's hardly the same concept as yearly vaccination with adjuvants. Sorry i've never heard that particular scare story - any references?

Re: Microchip reaction?

Gerry Henry — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 18:13:57 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

Its not a reaction to the chip, 99% certain it is an infection due to the chip being implanted in an un-sterile way or the subsequent bite wound has caused an infection. The chip itself is totally inert it could not cause this problem. Give the dog some antibiotics not just NSAIDs or at least look at the fluid on a stained slide for bacteria. This is a no-brainer as far as I can see.

[/quote]

If the chip is 'totally inert' how can it cause injection site sarcomas ?

Re: Microchip reaction?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 18:05:26 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"] Have to say one had provoked a reaction. [/quote]What to the bite or the broken chip - the former I presume.

Re: Microchip reaction?

Bob Russell — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 17:13:15 GMT

X-rays have shown up some bent and broken chips here. Usually following fights/bites etc. Have to say one had provoked a reaction.