Breeding Cocker Spaniel with IMHA

RE: Breeding Cocker Spaniel with IMHA

Virginia Campbell — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 22:24:38 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]That's interesting, thank you.[/quote]

+1 (owner of another cocker spaniel)

RE: Breeding Cocker Spaniel with IMHA

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 20:33:19 GMT

That's interesting, thank you.

(owner of a cocker spaniel)

RE: Breeding Cocker Spaniel with IMHA

Julien Bazelle — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 18:41:46 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]Whilst we know cockers are over-represented I wasn't aware that the heritability was known or understood. For that reason I think we are maybe over reacting saying this dog absolutely shouldn't be used as a stud.[/quote]

There was a study that looked at the association between Dog Leucocyte Antigen (DLA) and IMHA and found that some breeds showed a strong link between their DLA haplotype and the phenotype "affected by IMHA". Cocker Spaniels were one of these breeds and it is interesting to know that the same DLA haplotype has been found to predispose them to anal sacculitis and anal sac adenocarcinoma and possibly chronic pancreatitis.

See attached abstract from Pubmed:

Tissue Antigens. 2006 Dec;68(6):502-8.

Association of a common dog leucocyte antigen class II haplotype with canine primary immune-mediated haemolytic anaemia.

Kennedy LJ1, Barnes A, Ollier WE, Day MJ.

Author information

Abstract

Immune-mediated haemolytic anaemia (IMHA) is the commonest immune-mediated disease of the dog, representing a major health concern to this species. The aim of this investigation was to determine whether genetic susceptibility to IMHA is associated with genes of the canine major histocompatibility complex (MHC; dog leucocyte antigen system, DLA). Samples were collected from 108 dogs with primary idiopathic, Coombs' positive IMHA. This diseased population was subdivided on the basis of Coombs' test results into two groups: 1) dogs with dominant warm-reactive immunoglobulin (Ig) G haemagglutinins and (2) dogs with an additional or dominant cold-reactive IgM haemagglutinin. The DLA class II alleles and haplotypes of the diseased population were characterised, and these data were compared with those derived from a breed-matched control cohort and a much larger group of DLA-typed dogs. Two haplotypes were increased in the patient group: DLA-DRB1*00601/DQA1*005011/DQB1*00701 (in the group with warm-reactive IgG haemagglutinins only) and DLA-DRB1*015/DQA1*00601/DQB1*00301 (in both groups, but more so in the group with cold-reactive IgM haemagglutinins). One haplotype, DLA-DRB1*001/DQA1*00101/DQB1*00201, was decreased in the total patient group, but this decrease was limited to the warm-reactive IgG haemagglutinins group, and it was actually increased in the cold-reactive IgM haemagglutinins group. A second haplotype, DLA-DRB1*015/DQA1*00601/DQB1*02301, was also decreased in the total patient group, and this decrease was found in both subgroups. In addition, all haplotypes carrying DLA-DRB1*001 were significantly increased in the cold-reactive IgM haemagglutinins group. When the overall patient group was divided on the basis of individual breeds with more than six animals represented, each of the haplotypes could be shown to be implicated in one of the breeds. Thus, it was apparent that different breeds had different MHC associations with canine IMHA, which is similar to the observation that different human ethnic groups can have different HLA associations with the same immune-mediated disease.

Re: Breeding Cocker Spaniel with IMHA

Claire Fisher — Tue, 30 Jun 2015 17:00:00 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

Thanks. It's just weird - dog was hospitalised for 48 hours, PCV low but stable, hovering just above 20%. Started on preds and sent home as it was stressing in the hospital (with strict rest instructions) then crashed. I've learnt not to discharge them so quickly!

[/quote] Could it have developed a pulmonary thromboembolism? I've had a couple of IMHA cases do that so I now start aspirin or clopidogrel at the same as prednisolone.

Re: Breeding Cocker Spaniel with IMHA

Anthony Dennison — Tue, 30 Jun 2015 09:34:07 GMT

Re: Breeding Cocker Spaniel with IMHA

Virginia Campbell — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 21:42:37 GMT

Sorry to hear about your patient Anthony.

Might still have been "just" IMHA, but a really savage one. The only not-old dog I have had to euth due to IMHA was a young-ish cocker (show type though, about 5yo IIRC) which had a bad time of it, seemed to recover and PCV picking up, then relapsed hard a few months later and O elected euth. No underlying cause found.

I wish we could scan dog's chips then link straight to a Kennel Club pedigree database and enter date and cause of death/reason for euth. Would make choosing a dog much easier if you could have a look at the longevity of its relations.

Re: Breeding Cocker Spaniel with IMHA

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 11:07:10 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

Sorry for the delay in replying, I've been off for a week. Unfortunately we don't need to worry about breeding - the dog deteriorated over the weekend and was PTS on Monday after it's PCV dropped from 22% to 9% despite a transfusion.

[/quote]Sounds like it was something more than just IMHA!

Re: Breeding Cocker Spaniel with IMHA

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:00:13 GMT

Re: Breeding Cocker Spaniel with IMHA

Lindsey Edwards — Sun, 21 Jun 2015 21:07:55 GMT

I would definitely infirm owners and document in records that any dog showing any condition that the breed is predisposed to or over represented in is not recommended. Absence of proof if a genetic link is NOT proof of absence of a genetic fault or mode of inheritance.

Re: Breeding Cocker Spaniel with IMHA

Virginia Campbell — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 21:53:15 GMT

I have a nice well trained working cocker bitch who I might breed from, but if she gets IMHA I won't. Same thing if her humeral condyles fall apart. Doesn't matter how good she is, both of those conditions are horrible and it's pretty nailed on that they're genetic, even if we haven't found the genes yet. A stud dog can do even more genetic "damage" than a bitch ( more potential offspring), so I'd say no. If the predisposition happens to be recessive and if you happen to breed to a clear bitch, the pups will be OK - but there's no way of knowing if the potential mates are clear- and anyway that's just kicking the can down the road as you're likely to get some carrier pups.

I know that if we insist upon perfection and only breed perfect dogs then the gene pool will end up a shallow puddle....but both of these problems are serious enough to kick a dog out of the pool. I know that so many people carry on regardless even if the dog practically has two heads thatyour stance would be a drop in the ocean...but we should still try to make what little difference we can.

Re: Breeding Cocker Spaniel with IMHA

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 18:45:22 GMT

[quote user="ruths"]

I would take that to ean it's suggested that affected indivuduals shouldn't be bred from

In fact I'd push it to say that IF they choose to breed from it, then they aren't being responsible to the future puppies.

[/quote]Yes that's how I read it but Michael sometimes sees things differently to the rest of us.

Re: Breeding Cocker Spaniel with IMHA

ruths — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 18:39:40 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Whilst we know cockers are over-represented I wasn't aware that the heritability was known or understood. For that reason I think we are maybe over reacting saying this dog absolutely shouldn't be used as a stud.

Some info here:

http://www.ufaw.org.uk/HAEMOLYTICANAEMIACOCKER.php

What's the dog like otherwise?

[/quote]

The conclusion to that infirmation says this

As far as we are aware, there are currently no organised schemes aimed at reducing the prevalence of IMHA in cocker spaniels. Whilst the genes involved have not been determined, breeding selectively from cocker spaniels whose lineages have a history of no, or low, incidence of the disease is likely to be effective in reducing the number of affected dogs (Indrebo 2006, Bell 2010).

I would take that to ean it's suggested that affected indivuduals shouldn't be bred from

In fact I'd push it to say that IF they choose to breed from it, then they aren't being responsible to the future puppies.

Re: Breeding Cocker Spaniel with IMHA

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 18:33:02 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"] I wasn't aware that the heritability was known or understood.[/quote]That's why I used the term: 'potentially familial'. But although Anthony has reassured us that this client is responsible, I re-iterate that there are enough dodgy breeders around not to take the risk if there is any doubt.

Re: Breeding Cocker Spaniel with IMHA

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 18:09:33 GMT

Some info here:

http://www.ufaw.org.uk/HAEMOLYTICANAEMIACOCKER.php

What's the dog like otherwise?

Re: Breeding Cocker Spaniel with IMHA

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 17:55:44 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

No. There are enough irresponsible breeders in the world already without encouraging those who know their animals have a potentially familial disorder.

[/quote]

Actually Martin - it was the owner who brought it up as he was due to cover a bitch in August. It's a cracking, well trained working cocker and the bloke is one of the most sensible and down to earth clients I have.

[/quote]There is always the exception to every rule!

Re: Breeding Cocker Spaniel with IMHA

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 17:04:33 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

No. There are enough irresponsible breeders in the world already without encouraging those who know their animals have a potentially familial disorder.

[/quote]

Re: Breeding Cocker Spaniel with IMHA

Luca Poddighe — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 15:50:06 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]The owner was planning to use him as a stud dog in a couple of months - this is out while he's getting treated, but with Cocker's being over-represented due to a genetic link, should this dog be bred from in the future?[/quote]

The owner shouldn't use him as a stud dog and I would advise you to write it clearly in the clinical notes so that no one can say you haven't advised against it.

Re: Breeding Cocker Spaniel with IMHA

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 15:44:59 GMT

Agree with Martin

Wynne

Re: Breeding Cocker Spaniel with IMHA

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:22:33 GMT

No. There are enough irresponsible breeders in the world already without encouraging those who know their animals have a potentially familial disorder.