Young cat with ascites

Re: Young cat with ascites

Anthony Todd — Sat, 23 May 2015 09:24:21 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Has anyone ever seen confirmed FIP with a SG as low as 1.011???[/quote]

Don't want to labour a point, but in the current climate here of avoiding mistakes, it seems to me that a simple SG of abdo fluid can eliminate FIP, a devastating diagnosis, quickly cheaply and definitively right at the start.

So will a SG of 1.011 eliminate FIP or not?

If so, we could have eliminated the biggie on day one. The owner and the cat would have been relieved.

Re: Young cat with ascites

Robin Grimmer — Sat, 23 May 2015 07:06:29 GMT

did you get any other biopsies eg liver, pancreas, small intestine?

Re: Young cat with ascites

Kara Gibson — Sat, 23 May 2015 03:59:31 GMT

The volume of ascites was not large (around 30-40mls) but certainly at surgery it was very obvious - I've done surgery on a lot of cats abdomens and I have never seen this volume of fluid in a 'normal' cat at surgery before, particularly since he was clinically dehydrated. I am treating him as a dietary sensitivity at the moment but remained confused by that fluid. If it stays away I'll be happy!

Re: Young cat with ascites

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 22 May 2015 14:02:53 GMT

Normal is 1ml/6kg I think? poss 1ml/10kg... was in a lecture I watched t'other week

Re: Young cat with ascites

Anthony Todd — Fri, 22 May 2015 13:09:22 GMT

[quote user="ruths"]unless its abdomen is filling up again.[/quote]

From reading the first post it sounds as if there never was any "ascites" in that there wasn't much extra fluid or have I got it wrong?

There's always, what, 10mls of "fluid" in the abdomen normally, isn't there?

Has anyone ever seen confirmed FIP with a SG as low as 1.011???

Just sounds like a dietary sensitivity to me with all he other signs being sort of incidental.

Re: Young cat with ascites

ruths — Fri, 22 May 2015 11:21:50 GMT

I agre that the main sign in this cat is vomiting- unless its abdomen is filling up again.

And so I'd certianly peruse the GI signs further...

hth

Re: Young cat with ascites

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 22 May 2015 09:22:40 GMT

[quote user="Kara Gibson"]The cat has vomited once of twice since surgery but his owner has not returned for a recheck so we are chasing her now. He is on a sensitivity food which hopefully is helping, no diarrhoea. Usually vomits some food, definitely omitting with abdominal effort versus regurgitation[/quote]Notwithstanding the other unexplained issues with this cat, not least the ascitic fluid, IME vomiting is as much a symptom, if not more, than diarrhoea in cats with food sensitivity and this cat is the right age range. So I would stick with a selective/hypoallergenic diet for a while and observe, it may take several weeks to settle.

Re: Young cat with ascites

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 22 May 2015 09:17:55 GMT

Did you do a chest xray?

Re: Young cat with ascites

Kara Gibson — Fri, 22 May 2015 02:56:37 GMT

Just this morning received the histology results - both fundic stomach and lymph nodes normal architecture (banging my head on desk!). The cat has vomited once of twice since surgery but his owner has not returned for a recheck so we are chasing her now. He is on a sensitivity food which hopefully is helping, no diarrhoea. Usually vomits some food, definitely omitting with abdominal effort versus regurgitation. I still have no idea where this fluid came form, the SG was 1.011 so low which made FIP unlikely but not impossible and there was no other signs of heart or liver disease or low protein.

Re: Young cat with ascites

Anthony Todd — Mon, 18 May 2015 00:09:19 GMT

[quote user="Kara Gibson"] but the cat is still intermittently vomiting.[/quote]

What were the results?

What does the cat vomit? Any diarrhoea? Appetite? Antiemetic?

Re: Young cat with ascites

Anthony Todd — Sun, 17 May 2015 11:31:20 GMT

Yeah, but we did it long before TLAs had even been thought of.

Re: Young cat with ascites

ruths — Sun, 17 May 2015 10:17:17 GMT

Yep- DPL but I didn't want to patronise you -)))

Re: Young cat with ascites

Anthony Todd — Sun, 17 May 2015 10:08:03 GMT

[quote user="ruths"]That's a diagnostic peritoneal lavage,[/quote]

Surely it's got its own TLA .....? ;-)

Re: Young cat with ascites

ruths — Sat, 16 May 2015 21:01:03 GMT

That's a diagnostic peritoneal lavage, Anthony -)) it's indicated when there's a small amount of abdominal fluid.

Re: Young cat with ascites

Anthony Todd — Sat, 16 May 2015 09:49:12 GMT

PPS: occasionally if I couldn't get a sample we used to inject say 50 odd mls of saline into the abdomen, massage it round and draw off as much as we could, spin it down and send it off for cytology etc. Easier than an exlap.

Is that ever done, is it a good idea??

Re: Young cat with ascites

Anthony Todd — Sat, 16 May 2015 09:29:04 GMT

PS: You say it was a "transudate" which means, I think, a low SG which would rule out FIP and anything infectious in the peritoneal cavity I would have thought?

[I always get them mixed up, but Dr Google gets it right I hope]

Re: Young cat with ascites

Anthony Todd — Fri, 15 May 2015 15:37:00 GMT

Sorry, just reread your initial post. Doesn't sound as if the cat had ascites , except by definition, as there was such a small amount of fluid in the abdomen. Sorry I sort of imagined it was a >200ml job.

What was the SG of the fluid you tested?

Re: Young cat with ascites

Kara Gibson — Wed, 13 May 2015 02:43:07 GMT

Still awaiting histology results. Despite my best efforts I was unable to tap his abdomen given the location and small volume of fluid. I knew based on the fluid obtained at surgery we were dealing with a transudate having checked the SG in house but currently have no explanation for this and FIP is very common out here. At a post op check I can't see any new fluid forming on ultrasound yet but the cat is still intermittently vomiting.

Re: Young cat with ascites

Anthony Todd — Mon, 11 May 2015 15:35:48 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

It would give you a stronger hint, but just because there is a high SG doesn't automatically mean it's FIP. Yes it's strongly indicative, but there are other causes.

[/quote]

True, but it gets you so far,so quickly, so cheaply.

If it's low, you can start treatment or whatever straight away as well as concentrating the mind on one half the list of possibilities and eliminating the other half.....

Should also give you an instant sample for the lab. too, if the SG is high.

Sorry forget, if you do a BUN dipstick test on the fluid it'll pick up a ruptured bladder too. er, and not for my first time in a dog.....

Re: Young cat with ascites

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 11 May 2015 08:58:26 GMT

It would give you a stronger hint, but just because there is a high SG doesn't automatically mean it's FIP. Yes it's strongly indicative, but there are other causes.

Re: Young cat with ascites

Anthony Todd — Sat, 09 May 2015 18:04:24 GMT

Sorry, and no criticism of the OP, but wouldn't the SG of just a drop of the abdominal fluid give you the vital answer and instantly?

Re: Young cat with ascites

Kate Richardson — Sat, 09 May 2015 12:28:01 GMT

Any results yet?

Re: Young cat with ascites

Kara Gibson — Wed, 06 May 2015 09:45:47 GMT

My thoughts with regards to FIP exactly.

He has not had an echo and would require quite heavy sedation/GA given his very fractious nature. I am able to auscultate him and he has a normal heart rate, no heart murmur, normal lung auscultation. A quick check with the US when he was under GA before surgery showed no pleural or pericardial fluid. We do not have NT-proBNP here. I can't completely rule out cardiac disease but it does seem unlikely. And if so he coped with a GA remarkably well!

Repeat bloods today are all completely normal, no low albumin or liver abnormalitites adn he is FIV/FeLV negative. I guess I need to wait for my histopath results and monitor the fluid carefully.

Re: Young cat with ascites

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 05 May 2015 12:49:55 GMT

FIP would have been top of the list of differentials, you can't rely on coronovirus titre but I would have expected a high protein content to the effusion and a high serum globulin. How sure can you be of his heart function. Have you performed echocardiography, can you do NT-proBNP in HK?