Ammonium Urate Crystals in asymptomatic dog

Re: Ammonium Urate Crystals in asymptomatic dog

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 16:16:48 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Kent"]The saline is designed to aid ultrasound, the contrast is for radiographs - I think there is some confusion about what was being suggested.[/quote]Aha...good thinking Robin Andrew.

Apologies to Sarah for doubting you.

Re: Ammonium Urate Crystals in asymptomatic dog

Andrew Kent — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 15:33:29 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

Because depending on the dog, it's something you may be able to do conscious and therefore avoid a GA?

[/quote]Surely if you've got as far as catheterising it and filling the bladder with saline you can put some contrast in?

[/quote]

The saline is designed to aid ultrasound, the contrast is for radiographs - I think there is some confusion about what was being suggested.

For ultrasound - saline is sometimes a good idea if the bladder is very empty and allows much better assessment of the bladder wall etc.

Saline is not useful as a radiographic contrast agent - in that case a double contrast (air and contrast agent) would be preferred.

Andy

Re: Ammonium Urate Crystals in asymptomatic dog

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 12:48:06 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

Because depending on the dog, it's something you may be able to do conscious and therefore avoid a GA?

[/quote]Surely if you've got as far as catheterising it and filling the bladder with saline you can put some contrast in?

Re: Ammonium Urate Crystals in asymptomatic dog

joanne mcallister — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 12:42:43 GMT

Given that all dalmations are prone to urate calculi formation, would you put them all on u/d or similar even if you don't find evidence on xray or scan?

Re: Ammonium Urate Crystals in asymptomatic dog

Anthony Dennison — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 11:23:29 GMT

Because depending on the dog, it's something you may be able to do conscious and therefore avoid a GA?

Re: Ammonium Urate Crystals in asymptomatic dog

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:04:01 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]Thanks for the top tip Sarah![/quote]Forgive me but I'm still struggling to see how this will help once you've got as far as catheterising when you can use much better contrast techniques.

Re: Ammonium Urate Crystals in asymptomatic dog

Anthony Dennison — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 09:20:31 GMT

Thanks for the top tip Sarah!

The dog has been rehomed now, with strict instructions to go on to a specialised diet. I've discovered alongside Hills U/D, there is also RC Dalmation with reduced purine. Hopefully will see the dog back once he's settled in his new home and will have a full bladder - in kennels they just pee everywhere so it's impossible to get a full bladder!

Re: Ammonium Urate Crystals in asymptomatic dog

John Flynn — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:39:52 GMT

[quote user="Sarah Keir"]

If bladder still empty and male dog then pass a urinary catheter and put in some sterile saline. There will be small gas bubbles but you'll get to see stones and bladder wall thickness.

Sarah

[/quote]

Thanks Sarah - had never thought of this and might try next time have a nervous piddler that I'm keen to ultrasound bladder.

Re: Ammonium Urate Crystals in asymptomatic dog

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 18:56:33 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

We used to drain the bladder with a catheter then blow it up with air, got lovely contrast.

Is that still done?

[/quote]

It certainly is.

Re: Ammonium Urate Crystals in asymptomatic dog

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 18:18:09 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

We used to drain the bladder with a catheter then blow it up with air, got lovely contrast.

Is that still done?

[/quote]Well I do its a perfectly valid technique followed by positive contrast while I'm there to look for irregularities in the mucosal wall. Sorry Sarah, but I must say I can't see the advantage of putting in saline once you've got it catheterised.

Re: Ammonium Urate Crystals in asymptomatic dog

Anthony Todd — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:32:44 GMT

We used to drain the bladder with a catheter then blow it up with air, got lovely contrast.

Is that still done?

[Just asking before the brickbats start.]

Re: Ammonium Urate Crystals in asymptomatic dog

Sarah Keir — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:15:01 GMT

If bladder still empty and male dog then pass a urinary catheter and put in some sterile saline. There will be small gas bubbles but you'll get to see stones and bladder wall thickness.

Sarah

Re: Ammonium Urate Crystals in asymptomatic dog

Kate Richardson — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 15:56:22 GMT

Have you got ultrasound? might be quicker and cheaper to assess for stones. But given a dalmation and urate seen, I would use u/d. Allopurinol might be warranted if stones are present.

By the way, you can ignore the leukocytes on a dipstick- bears no relation to actual prescence of wbcs as far as I am aware- designed for human use.

Opps just seen you have scanned- I would prob repeat with a fuller bladder