Ongoing management of E.Cuniculi case

Re: Ongoing management of E.Cuniculi case

Virginia Campbell — Sun, 22 Feb 2015 15:01:55 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Really great to hear from you again Mark! Both you and your input have been missed.[/quote]

+1. Up the Marie 'n' Mark exotics vetsurgeon dream team!

Re: Ongoing management of E.Cuniculi case

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 21 Feb 2015 17:28:00 GMT

Really great to hear from you again Mark! Both you and your input have been missed.

Re: Ongoing management of E.Cuniculi case

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 21 Feb 2015 16:54:59 GMT

Mark (Program)ed to be effective.

Wynne

Re: Ongoing management of E.Cuniculi case

Mark Rowland — Sat, 21 Feb 2015 08:27:49 GMT

Hi Marie

Ha its a little cocktail of my own, based on a bit of logic and some science.

Ok here goes. (Marie you know all of this, its for other forumites mainly :-) )

There is unlikely to ever be a vaccine for EC. Why? Mainly because the humoral immune response is ineffective. we all know this when we see massive titres in rabbits that don't get better.

The cell mediated response is very effective at killing EC and rabbits need this response to be robust if they are to improve.

I have always believed that stress is responsible for many clinical cases and is what turns a rabbit with a titre to a rabbit with clinical EC.

Stressed rabbits secrete endogenous cortisol. We know rabbits are sensitive to the effects of steroids and are immunosupressed as a result.

Fenbendazole probably weakens EC but can as has been demonstrated in many species cause immunosupression so one is in effect weakening both armies.

So Ive been using a protocol that in theory should weaken EC but strengthen the immune response against it.

EC is now classified as a primordial fungus and has chitin in its cell wall hence the lufeneuron.

Echinacea/levamisole has been shown to cause potentiated immune stimulation in Wistar rats

see: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20797737

So I hope this combination works a bit better and seems logical. Thus far I have been happy with the results. Its a study one day.

Not seen any side effects.

Hope this makes sense, its just my take on one of the most controversial subject in exotic medicine.

Mark

Re: Ongoing management of E.Cuniculi case

Marie Kubiak — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 15:29:23 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]

Ive been using a lufeneuron /levamisole/ echinaecea combination for a couple of years and have been happy enough with the results.

[/quote]

He lives!!

I'm interested in your combo - is this something you have put together? I haven't come across that as a mix - why the levamisole?

Marie

Re: Ongoing management of E.Cuniculi case

Mark Rowland — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 23:53:04 GMT

Hello Michael

Nice to be back, hope you are well

Ahahaha "though heavily we bled still on we crawl"

Mark

Re: Ongoing management of E.Cuniculi case

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 23:47:06 GMT

Hello Mark, good to see you back

Re: Ongoing management of E.Cuniculi case

Mark Rowland — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 23:27:44 GMT

Avoid the 'roids if poss.

Ive been using a lufeneuron /levamisole/ echinaecea combination for a couple of years and have been happy enough with the results.

Fenbendazole is also immunosuppressive in many species. Ive got a contact in the US who has had many cases of bone marrow aplasia in rabbits on standard doses. I would not advocate long term fenbendazole as Marie has said.

Goodluck, Mark

Re: Ongoing management of E.Cuniculi case

Dagmar Steele — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:34:24 GMT

Latest talk I've attended: No steroids, systemic or topical if possible in rabbits.

Re: Ongoing management of E.Cuniculi case

ChrisBVSc — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:15:11 GMT

Out of interest, I was always under the impression that steroids were a big no-no in rabbits, including eye drops (although I have used them once or twice without any problems!)

Please could Marie or someone in the know clarify this?

Thanks.

Re: Ongoing management of E.Cuniculi case

Marie Kubiak — Sat, 14 Feb 2015 09:39:49 GMT

Have bacterial causes (particularly Pasteurella) been ruled out? Iridial white masses are frequently abscesses. EC usually has cataracts and uveitis present prior to any evidence of secondary/sterile abscessation whereas bacterial infections tend to present as abscessation alone and progress to uveitis.

Do you know if the titre was IgG or IgM?

If no bloodwork has been done then I would review renal function as part of a general screen but I would be more inclined to regularly monitor haematology given long-term fenbendazole and corticosteroids. If no timeframe for medication was set then I would ask what the plan is for medication as lifelong treatment seems a little overzealous.

Marie