caesarian puzzled me

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Andrew Mellor — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 13:17:00 GMT

Now that is a tangent!

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Anthony Todd — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 11:28:36 GMT

There's always someone, always!

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 10:57:46 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]I haven't a clue what PME is.[/quote]

Thank goodness you're not a pilot..... or you'd have to act on this:

METAR USTR 020200Z 24007MPS 9999 SCT013CB M01/M01 Q1003
TEMPO 26015MPS 1500 SHSN BLSN BKN005 RMK QFE742/0990 21290060 30750029

AND get it right......

[/quote]

Location: USTR
Report emitted the day: 02, time 02:00 UTC
Monday 2 March 2015 02:00 Greenwich time.
Wind: True direction = 240 degrees, speed: 7 m/s (14 knots) (25 Km/h).
Minimum horizontal visibility: 10 km or more.
Clouds: Scattered (3-4 oktas), at 1300 feet above aerodrome level (396 meters), cumulonimbus.
Temperature: -1 degrees Celsius (30 Fahrenheit). Dewpoint: -1 degrees Celsius (30 Fahrenheit). Relative humidity 100 %. Wind Chill: -7 degrees Celsius (19 Fahrenheit).
QNH (Sea-level pressure): 1003 hPa (29.62 inches).

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 10:10:35 GMT

When I was in school, I was pushing the boundaries in becoming a veterinary surgeon. If I'd wanted to get into aviation it would have been as a trolley dolly. I also went to uni at a time when the lecturers actually spoke English (as opposed to sounding like demented scrabble players)

Wynne

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Anthony Todd — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 10:02:31 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]I haven't a clue what PME is.[/quote]

Thank goodness you're not a pilot..... or you'd have to act on this:

METAR USTR 020200Z 24007MPS 9999 SCT013CB M01/M01 Q1003
TEMPO 26015MPS 1500 SHSN BLSN BKN005 RMK QFE742/0990 21290060 30750029

AND get it right......

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Rob Davis — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 08:43:13 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

I not only don't know what progesterone levels are in premature births, I haven't a clue what PME is.

Wynne

[/quote]

Post-mortem examination

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 08:28:39 GMT

I not only don't know what progesterone levels are in premature births, I haven't a clue what PME is.

Wynne

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Stephen Courtney — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 20:18:40 GMT

I think if you take the time to call Dr Larry Roberts at Idexx, he may well have many of the answers you are looking for. a real gentleman and a fund of repro info.

Speaking as someone currently watching a very prolonged split season GSD oestrus, with cytology and progesterone coming out the wazoo!

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Anthony Todd — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 19:41:03 GMT

[quote user="tess"]It would be interesting to know what happens to progesterone levels in these cases[/quote]

Sounds like nice paper for someone....

as they say on QI NOBODY KNOWS

Perhaps one of the labs would do the levels at no cost, just for interest or kudos?

How long before "birth" do the levels drop? Is this related, in chihuahuas [!!] to the diameter of the cervix etc. etc.

Is there any correlation at all or is it only in humans??

Cows??

Horses where there really is a lot of money at stake!!

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Anthony Todd — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 11:55:04 GMT

PS. They supplement progesterone in women having premature births.

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Anthony Todd — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 11:39:07 GMT

[quote user="tess"]

It would be interesting to know what happens to progesterone levels in these cases.

If the pathways have clicked into place to start premature labour then perhaps it would be low?

[/quote]

Yes, need the progesterone levels in these "premature" - but - not - for- dates cases.

Better to define "premature" by the appearance of the pup rather than a blood value of the dam??

Maybe there's a disconnect?

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Wren — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 09:12:22 GMT

I had similar with a ewe once. They'd been raddled in fairly tight groups and this one was due to be lambing at that time (the others in the same group were all lambing). Straining, not much happening and I found cervix almost entirely closed so caesared it assuming ringwomb. Two lambs, both hairless and definitely premature looking. Ewe really didn't have much milk so I suspect there had been a mix up with tups/raddle colours. I have since wondered whether she was just straining as a precursor to vaginal prolapse or similar, and not actually trying to lamb.

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 08:56:42 GMT

Q How is initial disease spread?

A By a computer virus.

Wynne

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 08:55:19 GMT

Q What's the difference between BSE and PMT?

A One's caused by a prion, the other's mad cow disease.

Wynne

(Help, I've caught initial disease!!!!!!!!!!)

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 08:51:24 GMT

What's PME?

Wynne

Re: caesarian puzzled me

listhestar — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:20:31 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Mellor"]they were real surprises- first one skin, muscle , linea alba - pups face!!! [/quote]

Ah yes I can imagine that would be a surprise!

Lisa

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Andrew Mellor — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 19:35:03 GMT

[quote user="listhestar"]

Hi Andrew

I've had a few odd things lately. Do you check foetal heart rates or progesterone levels at all?

I've had 2 dogue de bordeux who have had a pre mature labour where they just dropped out about 1 week early. Breeder didn't want PME so unsure cause. Previously have found Canine herpes and proteus (I know controversial if definately a cause).

I think its great to reflect but by the sounds of it you do as many c sections as our practice and odd things will happen the higher the number of breeding bitches you see. I've had 2 torsioned uterus's which apparently is very rare!
Lisa

[/quote]

I don't routinely check progesterone levels , I do wonder if there is something like herpes causing a slowing of maturation or as previously noted on the thread are the bitches actually starting to abort rather than actually deliver,

Not had torsions but had 2 with pups ( alive in abdomen) with uterine rupture, placentas still attached - they were real surprises- first one skin, muscle , linea alba - pups face!!!

Re: caesarian puzzled me

listhestar — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 17:42:44 GMT

Hi Andrew

I've had a few odd things lately. Do you check foetal heart rates or progesterone levels at all?

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Lucy Fleming — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 14:27:36 GMT

I would wonder too if it is not actually more of an abortion - puppies actually died in utero some while back. I know in other species (cattle and sheep) they aren't always passed straight away, and autolysis isn't always obvious. Not sure for those who are finding living though very premature-seeming pups.

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Andrew Mellor — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 13:30:12 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]

I would think that if you can feel a puppy the delivery must take place that day, you cannot then just wait and see in case the pups are immature because the uterus is in contact with the outside world = contaminated.

Am i wrong?

Mariette

[/quote]

Exactly where I started off and why I started the thread, bitch was ready but pups were not and I was puzzled as to why.

Re: caesarian puzzled me

mariette asselbergs — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 13:26:44 GMT

Am i wrong?

Mariette

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Mark Hedberg — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 09:49:31 GMT

[quote user="Braden Collins"]

I was told that too but I reckon if I can poke a puppy it must be open.

[/quote]

What do you think you're doing, bringing common sense into this?

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Braden Collins — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 02:23:03 GMT

I[quote user="Tom Ward"]

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]the cervix was partially open.

[/quote]

I was always told it was impossible to feel a dog's cervix?

[/quote]

I was told that too but I reckon if I can poke a puppy it must be open.

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Stephen Courtney — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 16:01:29 GMT

If your finger goes all the way in, I'd guess it was open...especially on a smallish dog. Great Danes are almost as roomy as a sheep, i once spent a weird night manually whelping a Great Dane into the small hours before doing a caesar for the last two. You live and learn.

Re: caesarian puzzled me

Tom Ward — Fri, 30 Jan 2015 18:51:26 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]the cervix was partially open.

[/quote]

I was always told it was impossible to feel a dog's cervix?