Tiresome forum becoming?

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 24 Dec 2014 11:31:28 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]Blimey - no offence old boy[/quote]

Nah, just another over-reaction, sorry.

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

bob lehner — Wed, 24 Dec 2014 10:45:41 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Just give one single example[/quote]

Blimey - no offence old boy, but have you been over-indulging on the Christmas sherry ?

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 24 Dec 2014 10:37:02 GMT

Merry Xmas mate.

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 24 Dec 2014 10:34:54 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Should be a red star for an unfused present participle and particularly from someone who writes to make a living.[/quote]Make a living from writing? pah... that will be the day. I write for pleasure alone and although Vet Times paid relatively well, if I ever make anything significant from it that will be a bonus.

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 24 Dec 2014 10:26:41 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] the intended impact of me quoting the song[/quote]

Should be a red star for an unfused present participle and particularly from someone who writes to make a living.

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 24 Dec 2014 10:24:34 GMT

PS. Bob, I didn't give you the red star.

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

Anthony Todd — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 21:28:44 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"] Anyone who says exactly the same thing on three separate occasions - just press a button and send them flying into cyberspace.[/quote]

Just give one single example and I'll take you through it,

Anyone?

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

bob lehner — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 21:00:57 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]soul-destroyingly repetitive[/quote]

Yep - I agree with Mr M. The site could do with a Graham Norton-style virtual ejector seat. Anyone who says exactly the same thing on three separate occasions - just press a button and send them flying into cyberspace.

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 17:59:57 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Hmmm.....am I the only one recalling the lyrics of that Carly Simon song: 'You're so vain you probably think this song is about you'?[/quote]

Er, but to be clear, I didn't think the comments were aimed at me!

[/quote]Dargnam it Arlo, you completely spoiled the intended impact of me quoting the song as aimed at myself and waiting for a reaction! You clearly are as vain as me!

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 17:52:41 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Hmmm.....am I the only one recalling the lyrics of that Carly Simon song: 'You're so vain you probably think this song is about you'?[/quote]

Er, but to be clear, I didn't think the comments were aimed at me!

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 17:51:27 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

Well, they're not.

Which makes this

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"] But try and criticise constructively, with good grace and kindness, being clear and open about who your comments are intended for, or frankly you are no better than they are.[/quote][quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]As such, I think your comments are pointedly unkind, and that they are no more welcome than the traits you criticise in others.[/quote]

rather superfluous (or even patronising).

However it does give an idea of what I'm getting at. You have taken one thing I've said, decided to see zebras when you heard hooves, and opened a litany of comment. There are other examples around on this thread, of course.[/quote]

David, I am not the only person who felt your words were directed at a small or singular number of people. So I'd argue that if people are 'deciding to see zebras' when they hear your hooves, then you need to raise your game a bit and express yourself more clearly. For example, if a significant number of people are, as you claim, turbo posting, then you need to say who you are referring to, rather than just mouthing off indiscriminately.

I disagree with you that because your comments are aimed at a large number of people my comments are superfluous. Is it less bad mannered to come and criticise lots of people rather than just one? I'm not quite sure I follow your logic.

It doesn't really matter either way. Could I just ask you to try and adopt a more friendly tone? Criticism is fine, but I find singularly ineffective when presented on a plate of bile.

If you can't or don't want to do that, then you'll have to find somewhere else to vent your spleen.

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

David Mills — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 16:34:18 GMT

Well, they're not.

Which makes this

rather superfluous (or even patronising).

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 16:14:05 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I read your comments to be directed at a very small number of people, quite possibly just the one person (as I say, I've been focussing on website development for a few weeks, but from what I have seen, most of what you say could only apply to one person).[/quote]Hmmm.....am I the only one recalling the lyrics of that Carly Simon song: 'You're so vain you probably think this song is about you'?

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

karen jones — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 12:37:08 GMT

I enjoy this forum, where else can you get expert help so quickly! The other posts are often entertaining and I avoid any that annoy me. As in the real world there are always things and people that annoy you but the benefits of this forum outweigh any negatives . I would say well done Arlo👏

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 08:07:16 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]Let me be clear what I'm on about.

In the last few weeks, repeatedly, there have been good clinical and non-clinical discussions which have become derailed by turbo posting by some members who seem to have an agenda. The agenda is dogmatic, numbskulled and soul-destroyingly repetitive, illogical and somewhat embarrassing. [/quote]

Hmm - is this not now the case of the pot calling the kettle black (at least two of the above adjectives could now be applied to your posts in this very thread).

Let ME be clear what I mean.

I think you make a good point which everyone (self-included) needs to remember, which is not to be repetitive. Nor can I fault your logic about having a responsibility to try and post good quality replies.

However - and this is where we diverge completely - I read your comments to be directed at a very small number of people, quite possibly just the one person (as I say, I've been focussing on website development for a few weeks, but from what I have seen, most of what you say could only apply to one person).

As such, I think your comments are pointedly unkind, and that they are no more welcome than the traits you criticise in others.

It is absolutely fine for you to disagree with the way that others post. Of course it is. And whilst I may sometimes find your tone rather objectionable, you talk a lot of sense. But try and criticise constructively, with good grace and kindness, being clear and open about who your comments are intended for, or frankly you are no better than they are.

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

Virginia Campbell — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 21:24:08 GMT

I don't know how you intended this

[quote user="David Mills"]If everyone else is happy to let things slide, then fine; you reap what you sow.[/quote]

to come across but it sounds to me like "Well anyone who is having a nice happy time on the forum and finds it fun, interesting and informative is just living in a fool's paradise. Ha! They'll be sorry when it all goes to pot and they needn't come crying to me".

As one of the happy fools, this sour sort of statement doesn't make me think, "Hmm he has some good points, perhaps I should try harder to contribute to the clinical discussions" - rather my natural reaction is to think, "Well go strop in the corner on your own ya malcontent". You know, drop of honey and gallon of gall and all that.

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

David Mills — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 18:42:03 GMT

Let me be clear what I'm on about.

To say everyone is welcome to have their opinion is trite and lazy. As I see it, with expressing an opinion comes some responsibility. In this forum, that should be to the OP (e.g. stating whence your opinion came, what weight it may carry etc), and to the rest of the forum members. The latter takes the form of not saying the same things on different threads over and over again - in teenagespeak, we geddit - because all this does is stifle debate. It is a playground way of arguing. This type of discourse is particularly poisonous when it comes with sneers of derision at the OP or other members. It is no coincidence that 12-15 people are responsible for over 90% of the posts.

I'm well aware that I can ignore these tiresome posters. But that isn't the point.

I'm aware I may have upset other posters in the past; but it is a complete logical fallacy to trot out tired glass house analogies in response to this quite fundamental point about this forum.

I don't know what is to be done. I was just finding out whether others felt the same. If everyone else is happy to let things slide, then fine; you reap what you sow.

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 16:09:55 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]I've posted less on this forum in recent weeks. The reason is it seems dominated recently by prejudiced - in some cases retired or hurtling thence - posters who turbo post not to help but satisfy some peculiar desire to get their point across. [/quote]David I do feel a small case of people living in glass houses here. You have in the past I recall been one of the worst offenders. Maybe you have moderated your act but lets not forget that one of the reasons this forum is so popular is because of the very reason that we can have good/entertaining discussions and exchanges of ideas on things not restricted entirely to specific clinical issues.

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

Bob Russell — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 11:20:30 GMT

As long as there is clear differentiation (and moving of posts if necessary) then case discussions are just that. Better discipline for keeping to topic would be an advantage (guilty as charged). Is there a place for 'mini-moderators'?

Ignore the non-clinical threads if they are of little interest but there is more to the veterinary world than clinical cases.

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

Bibs — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 11:06:58 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Kent"]

I have been thinking of ways to encourage more positive discussions recently and was thinking of starting a Vetsurgeon journal club if anybody is interested? Lots of journals are increasingly becoming open access which makes getting hold of papers for everybody that bit easier and when we have had discussions about journal articles in the past it has seemed to generate quite a lot of interest.

So if people are interested I'm happy to get something organised - anybody?!

Andy

[/quote]

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

I was going to start a thread on abdominal X-Rays as had an X-Ray of a labradoodle with 3 pairs of underwear in the stomach as pattern recognition is a huge part of our job, but it would get a couple of comments maybe, then sink into the abyss.

[/quote]

I think more clinical stuff would be a good idea. I sort of half heartedly started a thread some time ago about photos. I was thinking along the lines of if people got decent photos of common or important things it might be useful and interesting. It didn't really catch on.

I'd be up for the X-rays idea and/or the journal club.

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

Robin Grimmer — Sun, 21 Dec 2014 17:51:59 GMT

Who wrote the title of this thread - Yoda? 😉

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

Andrew Kent — Sun, 21 Dec 2014 17:50:15 GMT

Thanks for the support Neil - much appreciated.

Having posted along a similar line previously I certainly share some of the sentiments that David expresses. I have to say, though, that I think things have improved again recently and have enjoyed the posts from most contributors over the last month or so.

Ive been a little quiet due to being hectic elsewhere in the run up to christmas but I have no intention of disappearing anytime soon!

So if people are interested I'm happy to get something organised - anybody?!

Andy

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

Arlo Guthrie — Sun, 21 Dec 2014 16:47:42 GMT

Anyone else feel the same? (Tiresome one-word 'no' responses need not apply)[/quote]

Well, all I can say is hang on in there till next year, when VetSurgeon V2 will be coming along. There two significant things about the new site. Firstly, developing the site has taken up an awful lot of my time over the last couple of months, which has meant I've had less time for moderating, and the stuff I do behind the scenes to encourage (hopefully) good quality discussions. I'll be back on the case in the New Year. Lots of ideas for more clinical discussions, broadening the scope of specialist input and producing more quality content.

Secondly, the new site has a raft of new features which a) make it much easier to find information from trusted contributors, and b) follow people whose opinions you value. I think the first of these in particular, whilst seemingly a subtle change, will make a profound difference.

It's a pretty eclectic bunch of people using these forums, and as offline, not everyone is going to warm to everyone on the site. Particularly when we have to operate within the confines of the written word. Still, I think we've rattled along pretty well for the last few years, and I'm very excited about what the future holds.

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

Glenn Hodgson — Sun, 21 Dec 2014 11:26:52 GMT

Alpply your own Internet filters David. If there is a name at the top of a post that you don't respect ignore it, or read it for a laugh as I often do.

Im slightly hesitant in choosing my wording here due to some of the robust replies that can follow. And my skin is quite think. Many will be terrified of posting!

I think this is a weakness of forums, I spend alot of time telling clients forums are full of opinionated garbage written by people aged 6 and up. This one is useful though Arlo as most of us are vets And have our names attached to our posts. Thanks!

Opinionated forum garbage still exists here tuough, in my opinion.....;-) and "Godwins law" still applies!

Re: Tiresome forum becoming?

Neil Wheadon — Sun, 21 Dec 2014 10:40:43 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]To be honest, there are bits that get a bit repetitive, but one of the reasons I keep coming back are that some of the posters here are well worth the detour. I'd be sorry if you left, David, because your pragmatic posts on veterinary medicine are full of helpful, practical tips, and you're very good at cutting to the heart of the matter.[/quote]

Yes agree with this, David is particularly good at the pragmatic clinical bits.

I got sucked into the 'women in the profession' bit, was accused of being a women and having no ambition, so will ignore these now. Serial posters with the same recurrent points, just skip them, I do now. It's like TV, change channels, the problem with the forum is having an alternative channel to change to.

I really feel this forum needs more clinical material, maybe case of the week or something like that. I was going to start a thread on abdominal X-Rays as had an X-Ray of a labradoodle with 3 pairs of underwear in the stomach as pattern recognition is a huge part of our job, but it would get a couple of comments maybe, then sink into the abyss. Having said that I frequently use the search function for dose rates, so thank you Marie and the much missed Mark Rowland and pleeeease stay Andrew (Kent)

Merry Christmas

Neil