Skinny cat...needs fattening...help...

Re: Skinny cat...needs fattening...help...

Anthony Todd — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 16:58:39 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"] although many/most drugs are supposed to be I/M,almost all are fine S/C [/quote]

You do get an off-licence informed consent form signed, don't you?

[/quote]

Fortunately they weren't around [or we ignored them] most of the time.

After one has been giving stuff S/C for yonks one tends to take the risk.

The owner of the very lame cat, although the vet had complied with all the regs. ,was very upset , and so was the cat, and we never saw her or the cat....

Re: Skinny cat...needs fattening...help...

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 15:14:03 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"] although many/most drugs are supposed to be I/M,almost all are fine S/C [/quote]

You do get an off-licence informed consent form signed, don't you?

Re: Skinny cat...needs fattening...help...

Anthony Todd — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 14:22:03 GMT

[quote user="Stigen"]b12 previously, but he got very distressed with it...painful injection[/quote]

We always gave it S/C and it was totally painless. I have to say that, although many/most drugs are supposed to be I/M,almost all are fine S/C and it's so much easier to do both for the cat and the vet.....

I've seen some very lame cats following I/M jabs!

Sounds as if he's better so I'd stop the B12 particularly if it upsets him.

Re: Skinny cat...needs fattening...help...

Stigen — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 08:57:56 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

Royal Canin Senior Consult Stage 2 (High Calorie)?

[/quote]

That`s what he has been having the last 3 years, as well as A/d and senior consult wet food.[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

Any problems associated with this wire eg infection? If so, might need removing

[/quote]

The wire was put in 6 years ago,and nothing has changed there. Also he is more lame in his other leg, and most his problems are with his hips, rather than the knee.

[quote user="Liz white"] Have you thought about acupuncture for pain relief ?

[/quote]

I don`t have much experience with acupuncture...think I`ll try the laser first.

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]

Assuming T4 is well within the normal range, a few questions- is there any vomiting, even if infrequent? What are his faeces like? Colour and consistency- are they paler than they used to be? Is his appetite as good as it always has been, better or worse?

Definitely check a urine sample, but I would also check TLI to see if he has EPI, or simply trial pancreatic enzyme supplements and B12 injections. You say you are going to try mirtazapine- is because he isn't eating well?

In my experience, a large percentage of cats with weight loss with no obvious cause (ie bloods and urine normal) have GIT disease- either EPI or IBD or lymphoma. If you can scan his abdomen this may help too.

Have you tried sub lingual Temgesic (rather than considering a catheter?)

But most importantly, ask yourself does he really have acceptable quality of life now? Is his pain really manageable? Are you keeping him going for yourselves and not for him? Sad for you but maybe you need to have a serious think 😟

[/quote]

His T4 is normal, i Check it every year. Also here in Norway we very rarely see hyperthyroid cats, that`s waaay more prevalent in England. Also his apetite is fairly consistent.He eats well, and is always interested when I open the fridge. He just does`nt eat that much in a day. I was hoping maybe with a tiny dose of Mirtazapine to increase his intake above his basal metabolic need, so that he might gain some weight. He`s been a skinny cat for 3-4 years now, not going up,but not much down either. We always figured it to be a response to his arthritic condition. Muscular atrophy from long standing arthritis in hips and knee. I want to try him on low doses of anabolic steroids as well to see how he responds.

His feaces are solid and formed. Not had any diarrhea. He only vomits if he gulps down his food. The last 3 years there have been intermittent bouts of blood in his faces, but without a change in consistency. We did some diagnostics, without really coming up with much... but then he has been on Nsaids for 6 years... I will never anesthetise him again...he responds very poorly to anasthetics. LAst time was for the arthroscopy. His temperature dropped to 35.3 , even with a heating pad present...he slept for 12 hours after it...and the following 2-3 months he would have intermittent periods of loud miaawing and collapses at home on the floor..
He is currently getting loxicom 4 kg dose, and temgesic sublingually. I was giving him b12 previously, but he got very distressed with it...painful injection...He seems happier now than a few days ago. I am wondering if he had some sort of insult/accident when he was home alone that caused his aggravation. He is cuddling like before, washing himself, eating, wanting to go out and sniff the bushes etc. So not the hallmark of a cat with poor quality life. As biased as I am I think I will recognise that point

Re: Skinny cat...needs fattening...help...

Bob Russell — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 17:35:58 GMT

Mirtazapine is a pretty big guns antidepressant and I would be with the others recommending further investigation of cause. As an old school type I would happily reach for Laurabolin/B12 once TLI/TT4 and urinalysis has been completed.

Thickened intestines can be a bit of a give away as well!

Re: Skinny cat...needs fattening...help...

Anthony Todd — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 17:32:11 GMT

PS the only bit I agree about in Martin's dire warnings of disease precipitation is anabolics, which dinovets used with success too and I, er, forgot to include.

Re: Skinny cat...needs fattening...help...

Anthony Todd — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 17:25:54 GMT

Back in the day this is a classic for B12 and Betsolan, just a jab at therapeutic levels. single shot, S/C.

When you've explored all the suggestions, all very worthy and theoretical, just try something that worked for most dinovets for yonks.

It doesn't seem as if you've got many other options.

If there is no change then I'd be very surprised and contrite if anything did or does.

As far as food goes give him his ultimate favourite, independent of composition, nutritional value, all the theoreticalcaveats etc. etc .

Will make him happier at least, which is very important surely.

Make sure, if you're game to try it, that you let the forum know the response though.

Re: Skinny cat...needs fattening...help...

Kate Richardson — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 17:09:27 GMT

Have you tried sub lingual Temgesic (rather than considering a catheter?)

Re: Skinny cat...needs fattening...help...

Robin Grimmer — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 15:56:37 GMT

Any problems associated with this wire eg infection? If so, might need removing.

Re: Skinny cat...needs fattening...help...

Liz w — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 15:44:34 GMT

Have you thought about acupuncture for pain relief ?

Re: Skinny cat...needs fattening...help...

Anthony Dennison — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 14:52:24 GMT

Royal Canin Senior Consult Stage 2 (High Calorie)?

Re: Skinny cat...needs fattening...help...

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 13:49:51 GMT

I agree with Martin that at that age and with those symptoms subclinical CKD is a very likely possibility. It would be worth to know urine SG and current creatinine (creatinine wnl doesn't mean no renal dz). It would also be ideal to double check the thyroid issue. TT4 is a rule in test, some hyperthyroid cats have a normal TT4 but an abnormal free T4.

I don't want to sound patronising, you might already done/thought all these but everyone gets a bit more stressed (me included) when it is their own pet.

Re: Skinny cat...needs fattening...help...

James Laidlaw — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 13:43:30 GMT

AD or nutriplus gel can be good oral supplements to increase calorie intake without large volumes of food. I think stem cell therapy would be clutching at straws at best, this isn't just about cartilage is it...

Re: Skinny cat...needs fattening...help...

Stigen — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 12:52:02 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Kent"]

Presumably you have checked that he doesn't have hyperthyroidism or EPI or another reason to lose weight?

Assuming you have I would agree with Martin that if this were a cat being brought into my clinic I would be having a serious discussion about quality of life vs quantity.

[quote user="Stigen"]Anyone have any experience with parenteral nutrition for weak,old cats?[/quote]

You will cause far more problems that you solve with parenteral nutrition, its not appropriate in this situation.

Andy

[/quote]

I`m constantly considering his life quality.. He is eating as well as he normally does, cleaning himself, getting excited everytime anyone handles food...and not generalised lethargic.

I`ve ordered some anabolic steroids, mirtazapine and bought lots of ham for him. He`s my friend...I have to help him

Anyone have any experience with stem cell theraphy for regrowing cartilage in arthritic dogs/cat ?

Re: Skinny cat...needs fattening...help...

Stigen — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 10:33:02 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]

I assume you've checked T4?

[/quote]

T4 is fine, check it every year, most recently a couple of weeks ago

Re: Skinny cat...needs fattening...help...

Andrew Kent — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 10:28:53 GMT

Presumably you have checked that he doesn't have hyperthyroidism or EPI or another reason to lose weight?

Assuming you have I would agree with Martin that if this were a cat being brought into my clinic I would be having a serious discussion about quality of life vs quantity.

[quote user="Stigen"]Anyone have any experience with parenteral nutrition for weak,old cats?[/quote]

You will cause far more problems that you solve with parenteral nutrition, its not appropriate in this situation.

Andy

Re: Skinny cat...needs fattening...help...

James Laidlaw — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 10:28:42 GMT

I assume you've checked T4?

Re: Skinny cat...needs fattening...help...

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 10:14:55 GMT

[quote user="Stigen"]I intend to buy some heavy fat cream for him to drink every day(hopefully without diarrhoea), and provide him with lots of meat daily.[/quote]Eek...what do want to do give him pancreatitis and accelerate his (almost certain at his age) subclinical CKD!? There is a danger here of you not thinking straight as he's your cat. What would you tell a client?

If you are truly sure there is no medical problem or occult tumours then I would be inclined to give him mirtazapine (2mg tablets from Summit), anabolic steroids and Vit B12. But keep him on a diet suitable for his age. For an NSAID for pain relief I'd use Onsior as and when required but I truly believe that if he requires narcotics continually to control his pain you should consider his quality of life. Its not the way I'd want myself to be let alone the cat.