Lifting cats by the scruff -ok or not ?

Re: Lifting cats by the scruff -ok or not ?

Miriam Lodewyks — Mon, 01 Dec 2014 21:09:49 GMT

Perhaps there should be a law forbidding cats from trying to rip vets' and nurses' eyes out. To balance things out. 😜

Re: Lifting cats by the scruff -ok or not ?

tess — Mon, 01 Dec 2014 17:41:56 GMT

Laying on the side is an interesting one. I've started to use it for cats who are really wiggly for blood sampling, and for whom the minimal restraint thing doesn't work. We don't seem to need to scruff, just a firm hold.

Might try something similar for i.m.

Re: Lifting cats by the scruff -ok or not ?

Bibs — Fri, 28 Nov 2014 17:53:48 GMT

Has anyone else seen the technique of "stretching" cats to restrain them for a IM injection? I've seen it in one place I've locumed. It involves holding by the scruff at the top end with one hand and holding the back legs at the other end with the other hand and stretching the cat out on it's side. Apparently this stops the cat from being able to spring into action when you give the injection. I don't think scruffing an adult cat to lift them up is appropriate in normal circumstances because especially if you are lifting it's body weight with this method it probably is uncomfortable (and looks harsh). It might be the safest and most appropriate options when faces with an angry cat however.

Re: Lifting cats by the scruff -ok or not ?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 26 Nov 2014 17:31:28 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]But I would never lift the cat by the scruff except for a fractious cat just to transfer it in to a crush cage.[/quote]

I don't suppose it will be long before there is a law against crush cages.

Of course it's cruel to squash a cat up until it can't move.

(That's meant in case anyone is wondering, but seriously folks, what is less pleasant for a cat: quick lift by the scruff for a quick injection, or squashing flat in a crush cage for a quick injection? I use either method, or squashing under a blanket, or wrapping in a blanket, entirely according to circumstances and my judgment. )

Re: Lifting cats by the scruff -ok or not ?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 26 Nov 2014 17:30:45 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]lifting by the scruff is not ok,[/quote]

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]I would never lift the cat by the scruff except for a fractious cat just to transfer it in to a crush cage[/quote]

Erm....are these not conflicting statements? No-one is suggesting you do any more than that, we're not swinging them round by the scruff for fun!

Re: Lifting cats by the scruff -ok or not ?

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 26 Nov 2014 17:20:24 GMT

In answer to the op, lifting by the scruff is not ok, but do we really need a law against it? I agree with James that a gentle approach often works. Most cats respond better when handled gently. However, some cats are extremely fractious and for these I will scruff to give an injection for im sedation, or a crush cage may be necessary.But I would never lift the cat by the scruff except for a fractious cat just to transfer it in to a crush cage.

Re: Lifting cats by the scruff -ok or not ?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 26 Nov 2014 12:39:34 GMT

[quote user="Stigen"]A veterinarian working for an animal charity was quoted saying " Of course it is painful to be held in the skin fo the neck".[/quote]That is anthropomorphism working overtime.

[quote user="Stigen"] I`m not so sure, my cat does`nt care a second. [/quote]Exactly, nor do mine, they just resume normal activity when released then come back straight away for fuss and tummy tickles, although I would support them under their bums if I carrying them any distance.

Re: Lifting cats by the scruff -ok or not ?

Stigen — Wed, 26 Nov 2014 11:46:05 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Stigen"]A new law was passed in Norway today..It`s an animal cruelty law that forbids anyone from lifting you cat by the scruff, as it is seen as cruel to the cat. [/quote]

Jeez.

Are you allowed to hold it by the scruff as long as you don't lift it?

[/quote]

I don`t think it is intended for veterinarians, or other animal proffesionals. Actually, I`m not sure who it is intended for, seems an unnecssary regulation. I think if you own a cat, then go out in the garden and picks it up by the scruff to bring it back ina...and a policeman happens to walk past, then he could give you a ticket(if he was in a particularly bad mood).

It`s like MArtin said....It looks cruel...but is it cruel....
A veterinarian working for an animal charity was quoted saying " Of course it is painful to be held in the skin fo the neck". I`m not so sure, my cat does`nt care a second. Scruffing cats in the clinic is not under question, of course we scruff cats !

Re: Lifting cats by the scruff -ok or not ?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 25 Nov 2014 14:41:41 GMT

[quote user="Stigen"]A new law was passed in Norway today..It`s an animal cruelty law that forbids anyone from lifting you cat by the scruff, as it is seen as cruel to the cat. [/quote]

Jeez.

Are you allowed to hold it by the scruff as long as you don't lift it?

Re: Lifting cats by the scruff -ok or not ?

James Laidlaw — Tue, 25 Nov 2014 14:38:40 GMT

I know vets that just scruff outright for all cat handling and it's un-necessary the overwhelming majority of the time. Better handling techniques and longer consult times allow for less "aggressive" handling without scruffing. Most aggressive handling in cats (and a lesser extent dogs) comes from fear of being bitten or injured I think - anxiety about this almost always negatively affects the handling techniques of the operator and in turn increases patient anxiety too. In my opinion...

Re: Lifting cats by the scruff -ok or not ?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 25 Nov 2014 14:12:23 GMT

[quote user="alex gough"]Scruffing is not forbidden, just recommended to be used only if no alternative. Also supporting the weight is strongly recommended. [/quote]Is this not just exactly the approach we all use? Although the alternatives could be to stress the cat up even more fighting with it +/- with a big pair of leather gloves or shoving it in a crush cage. I think its called common sense. Do we really need behavioural specialists, guidelines or laws to tell us this?!

Re: Lifting cats by the scruff -ok or not ?

Alex Gough — Tue, 25 Nov 2014 14:04:03 GMT

AAFP and ISFM guidelines here:

http://www.savt.ca/images/file/Scherk%20articles/2011FelineFriendlyHandlingGuidelines.pdf

Scruffing is not forbidden, just recommended to be used only if no alternative. Also supporting the weight is strongly recommended.

Re: Lifting cats by the scruff -ok or not ?

Malcolm Ness — Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:09:45 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]There's probably basis for this if it's being advised by specialists.[/quote]

It should be relatively easy to find the references that underpin the advice and then we can all decide.

Never heard it said myself.

Re: Lifting cats by the scruff -ok or not ?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 25 Nov 2014 12:23:14 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]Most feline specialists or lectures on cat behaviour advise against ever a scruffing cats as a handling technique. CPD I've seen would suggest not scruffing. There's probably basis for this if it's being advised by specialists.

[/quote]So they would rather be bitten then as well?

I would however caution against scruffing porcupines! Despite their awesome spines they have very fragile skin which tears easily as we found out the hard way.

Re: Lifting cats by the scruff -ok or not ?

James Laidlaw — Tue, 25 Nov 2014 11:45:52 GMT

Most feline specialists or lectures on cat behaviour advise against ever a scruffing cats as a handling technique. CPD I've seen would suggest not scruffing. There's probably basis for this if it's being advised by specialists.

Re: Lifting cats by the scruff -ok or not ?

Bob Russell — Tue, 25 Nov 2014 11:35:11 GMT

I will occasionally lift a very stroppy cat (briefly) by the scruff to limit damage to life and limb. I would be very reluctant to lift by the scruff alone except in these limited circumstances.

I will 'scruff and support' quite regularly but take little weight via the scruff.

It may be a natural thing for kittens but it is far from natural for adult cats. Done badly it has the potential to be cruel I suppose. Brings a new meaning to 'Nanny State'. Do they hug animals going for slaughter to make their end a little better?

Re: Lifting cats by the scruff -ok or not ?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 25 Nov 2014 11:33:01 GMT

This must be the most stupid piece of legislation ever, and I thought ridiculous laws and the nanny state were bad in the UK.

Given that it is the way the mother carries her kittens, it is the safest way to control an aggressive cat and they (usually) just freeze, resume normal activity immediately and seem to suffer no discomfort it is ridiculous, and presumably introduced with no input from veterinary professionals just on the whim of an anthropomorphic 'know-all' animal do-gooder, petty-politician trying to show they have some power.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with the phrase: 'it looks cruel'.....to an un-knowledgeable layman yes. However, I would wonder if this is just for the public but veterinary staff can use their discretion. Otherwise what would they rather happen - we or the client get bitten?

Yet another example that qualifies the quote: 'Laws are for the blind obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men'.