Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

Anthony Todd — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:50:11 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]As Martin said, I don't think a decent quality dry diet with ad lib water is the cause of FLUTD.[/quote]

What do you mean by "good quality!? If the food is high in certain ions you'll get FLUDT under certain conditions, call it "stress" if you like.

Has anyone seen FLUDT in a communal cattery fed dried food 'cos in theory it should happen a lot?

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

Anthony Todd — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:45:53 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]Feed them all dry food + combined with stress, they'll all be getting FLUTD! And you'll get a lot of blocked cats!![/quote]

+1, er, good point, but as most manufacturers put "chemicals" in the food to change the pH, hopefully, it won't happen, says he somewhat embarrassed.....

Classic environment for urinary retention via "stress" so should be a factor.

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:41:41 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]Feed them all dry food + combined with stress, they'll all be getting FLUTD! And you'll get a lot of blocked cats!![/quote]

That has not been my experience in our local rescue cattery, and I would have thought that the dehydration from the constant diarrhoea would be equally harmful to the bladder. But they could always put some water on the biscuits... that is all 'good quality' (does that exist?) wet food is anyway!

As Martin said, I don't think a decent quality dry diet with ad lib water is the cause of FLUTD.

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

Anthony Todd — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:39:09 GMT

Have you ever worked in a cattery or shelter environment in the last 5-10 years?

No, never, but is that relevant to my suggestions and included disclaimers?

Sorry if this is all obvious, but it hasn't been set out yet.

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

Anthony Todd — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:39:02 GMT

and see above, it must be a virus...

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

Anthony Todd — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:38:57 GMT

Sorry, repeated and not by me, I've caught the repeated disease from Bob!!

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:08:14 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]Feed them all dry food + combined with stress, they'll all be getting FLUTD! And you'll get a lot of blocked cats!![/quote]A slight tangent from this: how many cats do people see with urolithiasis that are fed on dry food which does not include Go Cat? IME it is implicated in approaching 100%. It is rare in cats fed on one of the better brands that incorporate some sort of 'urinary control' like Royal Canin S/O index.

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

Anthony Dennison — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:08:31 GMT

Many thanks to everyone for their input.

They do have disposable food trays which are used, and at the moment they have a big supply of James Wellbeloved kitten (dry), so I've told the staff to put them all on that.

The problem arised when there was a big intake of kittens from Salford, and I think we're only now catching up to sorting out the hygeine issues, most cats are well with it and mostly the problem has gone, but we're still getting the occasional squitty kitten. All kittens will be getting wormed with fenbendazole, all re-usable water and food bowls will be soaked in hot water with appropriate cleaning agent. Litter trays will also be soaked and scrubbed (in a different sink with a marked cleaning tool) before being reused. Finally, alcohol gel to be used liberally between pens. Hopefully that should solve things.

Oh, and barrier nurse actual ill kittens.

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

ruths — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 06:48:06 GMT

I think it's quite telling that it's kittens/ young cats who one might consider to be naive to infection. And some of them are pyrexic. Yes, look at food, but I'd also isolate the ill ones, quarantine the in contacts, make sure there's good biosecurity, try to diagnose what's going on ( so you've got an incubation period and a shedding period once the vets have recovered) and stop intake. Keep good record of who came in at hmwhat time and who they've mixed with. It's frustrating that you don't have a diagnosis and it's worth trying again- It's a recognised method of dealing with an outbreak in a shelter environment.

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

David Mills — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 06:23:55 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="David Mills"]There is no chea easy solution unfortunately.[/quote]

Well starting with simple logic and detective work is cheap and easy....

Are the cats with D+ well or obviously ill? [Then go straight to disease.]

[More likely if it's only one or two to start], particularly if they've arrived recently..

Did one new cat come in with D+ [or more from the same place] or did a few or lots start all at once?

What food were they given [assuming more than one got it]?

Is the food new to the cats?

Was it high in fat [classic cause]?

Did someone decide that milk was good for cats..... [the world's most common cause of D+ if the cat or cats aren't used to it and tolerant]?

Assuming the cats are well, try a dried diet if the above therefore points to diet. [single plain protein source like chicken or fish is too expensive for large numbers]

Of course look at your hygiene and control measures anyway ie isolate the "infected " cats, if it's only one or two or they have just arrived.

[Too late to isolate them if it is a disease and they've infected all of the others!]

Sorry if this is all obvious, but it hasn't been set out yet.

Cheapest easiest way to find out if you've got a disease problem in the cattery, shouldn't take too long and won't cost much.

[/quote] Have you ever worked in a cattery or shelter environment in the last 5-10 years?

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:14:41 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Putting all the cats on a dry decent quality diet [/quote]

Sounds like a no-brainer to me. apart from the D+ risk hygiene with wet food [and the smell] is much more difficult as well as disposal of tins, measurement of amount etc etc.

Could I suggest cat charity kennels should make it mandatory?

And I suggested the diet first so I should have got the gold stars as well as Gillian [sigh] it's just so unfair!

[/quote]

Feed them all dry food + combined with stress, they'll all be getting FLUTD! And you'll get a lot of blocked cats!!

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

Anthony Todd — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 23:23:41 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]There is no chea easy solution unfortunately.[/quote]

Well starting with simple logic and detective work is cheap and easy....

Are the cats with D+ well or obviously ill? [Then go straight to disease.]

[More likely if it's only one or two to start], particularly if they've arrived recently..

Did one new cat come in with D+ [or more from the same place] or did a few or lots start all at once?

What food were they given [assuming more than one got it]?

Is the food new to the cats?

Was it high in fat [classic cause]?

Did someone decide that milk was good for cats..... [the world's most common cause of D+ if the cat or cats aren't used to it and tolerant]?

Assuming the cats are well, try a dried diet if the above therefore points to diet. [single plain protein source like chicken or fish is too expensive for large numbers]

Of course look at your hygiene and control measures anyway ie isolate the "infected " cats, if it's only one or two or they have just arrived.

[Too late to isolate them if it is a disease and they've infected all of the others!]

Sorry if this is all obvious, but it hasn't been set out yet.

Cheapest easiest way to find out if you've got a disease problem in the cattery, shouldn't take too long and won't cost much.

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

David Mills — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:13:16 GMT

Some good suggestions above. We frequently had this problem at our RSPCA hopsital in Birmingham (about 60 cats mostly strays) and it happens occasionally down here at our hospital in London. It's a nightmare because by the time you see a problem its usually too late. Classic would be a cat coming in with diarrhoea that then spread through the ward. We never cultured anything useful. I suspect it's a virus (not fcov) that we can't identify. I personally don't think giardia is that common in cats. It sounds like you've done a fair bit in terms of diagnosis but think further money best spent elsewhere. How effective measures will be depends on the set up- trained vs untrained, logistics etc. unfortunately the 'cure' is unsexy and laborious. Ideally you need to isolate those with diarrhoea and those coming in with similar. This needs to be true isolation. Think of it like cat flu, it spreads that easy. Along with disposable litter trays you can buy recycled carboard food trays to chuck once used. Don't agree a all that dried diet matters, but yes quality does - something like rc sensitivity. Getting them to eat is important at this helps enterocyte function. If you can't implement these things then you're wasting your time- using donated food and having all and sundry handle the cats is just not going to work. This isn't aimed at you, but if that's the reality of the sitiation the centre has to accept that. There is no chea easy solution unfortunately.

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

Anthony Todd — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 18:41:47 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Putting all the cats on a dry decent quality diet [/quote]

Sounds like a no-brainer to me. apart from the D+ risk hygiene with wet food [and the smell] is much more difficult as well as disposal of tins, measurement of amount etc etc.

Could I suggest cat charity kennels should make it mandatory?

And I suggested the diet first so I should have got the gold stars as well as Gillian [sigh] it's just so unfair!

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

ruths — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:15:25 GMT

Hmmm- sorry I missed that. Interesting...

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

Anthony Dennison — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:01:53 GMT

[quote user="ruths"] I did wonder if this might be tritrichomonas foetus[/quote]

PCR negative, also Feline Enteritis PCR negative, negative for Salmonella PCR and Giardia PCR

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

ruths — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:51:29 GMT

I second the idea of disposable litter trays. That would probably help loads and free up time for the staff too. I did wonder if this might be tritrichomonas foetus. Interestingly, it's the you get, presumably naive kittens that are getting it so my bet is on an infection and parasites would be high on the list.

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

Bob Russell — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:31:18 GMT

Litter tray hygiene is pretty important as well. Make sure they are disinfected to a very high standard and not mixed between pens. I had an issue some time back and changed litter trays to seed trays (dirt cheap) plus newspaper lining. Thrown out each day.

I would also bet on Giardia being an issue. Granofen is cheaper than Panacur granules. Wormizole cheaper still but strictly speaking is off licence in cats.

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 14:50:50 GMT

I'm faced with the same situation with a local CP branch. The problem is hygiene + stress and while you do of course have to treat significantly ill cats you'll end up banging your head against the wall. These are all self limiting causes but it is unlikely that the situation will ever completely resolve itself without wholesale management changes.

Unfortunately it is a self perpetuating cycle. In our case it is not helped by denial that there is a self-induced problem. You'll probably have to accept that you will only be able to manage the problem at best.

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

ruths — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 20:15:09 GMT

I'm sure you could speak with the guys at Nottingham vet school or even try Maddies fund in the USA. They may have some really helpful advice too.

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

ruths — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 20:13:07 GMT

Sorry that's a chaotic mess and I don't know how to edit it -(( I'm on my phone. Anyway, isolate the sick ones, quarantine the in contacts and try to keep them all seperate and try to stop memebers of staff passing it round. The increased hygine is great too!

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

ruths — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 20:10:22 GMT

If you think it is infectious ( you said some were pyrexic) then I think the standard advice would be to isolate your sick cats, work out which are the in contact cats and quarantine them as a first measure. If there are no facilites to isolate them in the shelter can you just put them all in the same area of the shelter and make some part of makeshift barrier? Only allow certain members of staff to work with the sick cats. See if you can keep the in contacts seperate from the normal community and the isolated community- again with some makeshift things if necessary. Are you sure it's not panleukopaenia? It might be worth talking about shutting I take down until you are totally on top of it as it's pointless just getting fresh cats in. I do realise that all of that sounds hard to do, but it might help contain the issue. A diagnosis would be great so you know incubation periods and whether or not vaccination will work too.. Tough stuff- good luck

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 18:05:57 GMT

I'd second the diet.... A local cat rescue had an outbreak of diarrhoea and we did all the same tests and got similar answers.... With little improvement despite treatments

Turns out the new volunteer was bringing in 'treats' such as tons of tuna (in brine) and lots of shitty wet food...you know the ones...

Putting all the cats on a dry decent quality diet will cure most of them, and be economically sensible as vet fees and lab tests are expensive!

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 17:04:11 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Diet change, particularly if it is moist or wet fatty food would be mine for starters.[/quote]

This is going to be a tough one. Yes, ideally diet change is what's needed, but as it is a re-homing centre there is a constant stream of cats in and out, and as it is a charity they do rely on donated food a lot of the time, which means there can be variations. It'll be pretty tough to switch them all on to something sensible (pursestrings are done up tight), but they do have a bag of sensitivity control for the bad cases.

Hygeine is being worked on, think I will order in a lorry load of panacur granules. Many thanks for the help so far.

Re: Diarrhoea in Shelter Cats

Anthony Todd — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 16:49:18 GMT

Diet change, particularly if it is moist or wet fatty food would be mine for starters. If no diet change at the time of the "outbreak" then think disease??

You can autoclave the food bowls or even use a cheapo dishwasher on a high temp which would virtually sterilise every thing.

We used to autoclave the communal coffee mugs at the practice when I was around.......