triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

RE: triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

Aine Seavers — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 23:30:36 GMT

Zoletil available in Australia and often used in cats but I had not heard about the antisedan reversing which would come in very handy for the cat clippings or the feral cats. Do you have an information or data I can have to read up on as this could prove very useful tip indeed.

RE: triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

Kate Richardson — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 20:39:13 GMT

[quote user="Nicola M"]

Resurrecting an old thread but: for those using triple combo with buprenophine rather than butorphanol what dose rates are you using? Currently the practice I'm locumming at use Dom/ket for routine cat neuters but are looking at adding in an opioid. Thanks

[/quote]

I only use triple combo rarely, but I do use medetomidine and buprenorphine routinely as a premed in cats. Buprenorphine dose I use is 0.01-0.02mg/kg ie 'normal' doses, but I use ultra low medetomidine- 0.01mls/kg (older cats)-0.02mls/kg (young or fractious cats. Works exceptionally well.

RE: triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

rhmrcvs — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 19:46:41 GMT

Yes it does

RE: triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

Nicola Cole — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 16:47:30 GMT

Re: triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

rjhvet — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 23:27:49 GMT

No you're not ! We use triple most commonly for cat neutering but generally alfaxan for most inductions. Don't know why it's not used more ?

Re: triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

Thomas Johnson — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 09:14:43 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

Have you tried using the quad procedure for cats? Medetomidine/Ketamine/Midazolam/Buprenorphine. It was thought up for use in early neuters at the RSPCA, but I presume would work in bigger, older cats. Can find the paper on it if you wish.

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I understand the use of this combination for early neuters due to the size of the patient, but I'm not sure I could make a good enough arguement for using an off-license drug, midazolam, routinely when there are plenty of licensed drugs and combinations available.

Re: triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

Braden Collins — Sun, 16 Nov 2014 05:04:01 GMT

Another alfaxan fan here for cats (can give it IM too for cranky cats without it stinging). Almost never use propofol any more.

I don't know about using methadone in triple combo but you can use it with medetomadine for sedation in dogs. We would always GA for hip scores though to ensure we can position the patient well with no manual restraint.

Re: triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

Suzanne Kelly — Sat, 15 Nov 2014 00:46:23 GMT

For cat neuters I use the lower dose dom/torb s/c as a premed, then propofol only for castrates and propofol and isoflurane for spays. I like this combo because they're up and eating 10 mins after they come off the table. For adult cats I use acp/buprenorphine/propofol/iso.

Re: triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

Sammy82 — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:49:40 GMT

I like Alfaxan too, always use it for cat spays/ castrates. Usually sedate with torbugesic+domitor/dexdom, the triple combination dose but then instead of Ketamin I give Alfaxan. Usually 1ml i/v in a 2.5kg cat is enough to last for a spay, and can be topped up if needed or maintained on Iso.

Re: triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:13:37 GMT

Steve I'm another alfaxan fan. Even if I wanted to go back to propofol, I wouldn't dare! Mynurse (RVN and Nurses Cert in anaesthesia and critical care) would KILL me.

Wynne

Re: triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

Andrew Mellor — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 08:51:06 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

[/quote]

I have come across this before but my main driving force for this question was simply that I wanted to keep in the dd cupboard less bottles and throw away less drugs, I was looking for one opiod or maybe two at most but maybe that is just a pipe dream. opening a 5 ml vial of midazolam for 1 or 2 procedures in a day that would then have to be thrown away would be wrong in my eyes.

Re: triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:02:31 GMT

Re: triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

Steve Johnson — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 23:17:55 GMT

Am I the only person that uses alfaxan?

Re: triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

nikki — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:01:55 GMT

We use buprenorphine as a premed then dom/ket IV for cat castrates. Cat spays gets ACP/bup premed and propofol and are tubed and given iso/o2 as most other surgeries. It's only the castrates we use triple for.

Re: triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

John Flynn — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:58:13 GMT

I most commonly use medetomidine/buprenorphine IM in cats followed by ketamine iv a couple of minutes later, then reverse with atipamezole once done. I tube cat spays and would sometimes give isoflurane usually at 0.5%. I find this convenient and is a habit by now - not saying it's the best. I do wonder if the buprenorphine (which I think is an excellent analgesic in cats) kicks in soon enough for a cat spay done like this though... the average cat gets 0.2ml of a 0.3mg/ml buprenorphine - very scientfic, I know...

Re: triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:26:58 GMT

I have a bit of Zoletil for use in the dart gun. Virbac have it in the country but need a licence. Can't see a case to get past the VMD just to spay cats.

Re: triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

Stigen — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:22:47 GMT

I quite like using Zoletil for most my cat anasthetics. It is a simple combination of zolazepam, tiletamine and xylazine. the zolazepam and tiletamine comes in a powder form together With sterile water to mix it With. Then use 10 ml of xylazine instead of the water. It is all mixed in one bottle, so you don`t have to combine anything when drawing it up. 0,2 ml for cats under 3 kg and 0,25-0,3ml for bigger cats http://www.virbac.cz/zoletil_guide_cats.html

It can easily be reversed With LOW dose antisedan.
I`ve used it on 1000 + cats without any problems,or fatalities.
It is Worth looking into. Certainly any cat neutering charity would benefit from it...0,3ml is enough to do any cat spay, as long as you can do it in under an hour.

Re: triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

tess — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:16:05 GMT

Also forgot to add that with our previous triple combo all spays were tubed and on oxygen with iso if needed. On the new regime everything is tubed.

Re: triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

tess — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:11:19 GMT

We've just changed from domitor/ buprenorphine/ketamine in cats to premed with dom/buprenorphine i.m. then IV propofol. It works well and the dom can be reversed any time. The Buprecare people do a really good wall chart with lots of doses.

Dog hip scores get a GA. There's no stress then if you have to take a few views to get it right and, given that the legs are usually tied together, no liability with it potentially waking up and damaging itself as it falls off the table...

Re: triple in cats and drug combinations for neuroleptanalgesia in dogs

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:58:18 GMT

Buprenorphine doesn't work as triple. Tried it a few times when the multi dose vials came out (back on glass vials now!)

Might be worth trying methadone. If it works let us all know.

TBH I'm tending to pre-med and induce with propofol these days.