Snake euthanasia

Re: Snake euthanasia

Clair Firth — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 11:17:59 GMT

Not really on topic, but I have just almost fallen over a snake while out on a walk with the dog (I'm in Vienna). Apparently (according to google) it was an Aesculapian snake, not poisonous but gave me quite a shock as the dog jumped over it twice!!! My question to the exotics experts is, isn't it a bit cold for snakes to be out and about in the woods? It's about 5°C today and it was much colder overnight Like I say, totally off-topic, but I'm curious if anyone else has ever come across any snakes at this time of year?

(And yes, I agree with Neil, that this was a fascinating thread :) )

Re: Snake euthanasia

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 11:17:45 GMT

One of the best threads for ages

'Basic' question that in all honesty a lot of us would be curious about and even less would know what to do, and lots of good answers. thanks

Neil

Re: Snake euthanasia

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 08:38:34 GMT

I would have been terrified!

Wynne

Re: Snake euthanasia

Suzanne Kelly — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 22:33:28 GMT

Yes that's exactly what they looked like, good, that's one organ correctly sampled!

Re: Snake euthanasia

CatherineThomas — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 22:29:34 GMT

Well done.

[quote user="Suzanne Kelly"]Are the kidneys long dark things caudal to the ovaries?[/quote]

yes, they look like this:

Re: Snake euthanasia

Suzanne Kelly — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 21:40:24 GMT

The deed is done! She was absolutely enormous, I'd say 6 feet long. Also despite opisthotonos very lively and strong. I couldn't see the heart at all and using the Doppler was difficult as her muscle contractions were so strong. I gave her I/m domitor and ketamine and waited till she relaxed a bit and then the Doppler worked a treat. Finding the brain to sample was really difficult, I eventually found it I think/hope. My snake anatomy knowledge is non existent, the liver was easy to find. Are the kidneys long dark things caudal to the ovaries? I couldn't find the adrenals. Thanks so much for all your help, Suzanne

Re: Snake euthanasia

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 15:48:40 GMT

Intracardiac pentoject. You should be able to see the heart beat.

For pets whose owners want to take the body home, I just tell them to wait 24 hours before burying. If left at the practice, I wait overnight to confirm death before bagging.

Because you are doing an immediate PM for samples, you can confirm death by removing the heart first!!! As has been said, the more samples you send to the lab the better but you definately want brain and liver. I'd recommend Pinmore Labs.

Good luck!

Re: Snake euthanasia

CatherineThomas — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 15:32:58 GMT

[quote user="Suzanne Kelly"]Can I just put its head in a mask and gas it? My gas chamber is teeny and its a 6.5kg carpet Python.

[/quote]

You could be holding the mask on for half an hour before it's sleepy enough and even more stressful for the snake, plus not so good for health and safety of whoever is having to hold it for that long, so probably not a good idea.

Re: Snake euthanasia

CatherineThomas — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 15:29:34 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Catherine - if you are anaesthetising first why bother with pentoject and not just pith them?

[/quote]

Because I don't like the idea of pithing a living animal even if it is anaesthetised.

Re: Snake euthanasia

Marie Kubiak — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 15:09:36 GMT

Trying to gas it will result in you sitting around for a long time. Fine if you have a cup of tea and a pack of biscuits, less so if you have a full consult list!

I would opt to euthanase by simply injecting pentobarb intracardiac (should be visible pulsing on the ventral surface, if a large snake then doppler will help location). Probably not the most comfortable thing for a snake but they don't react at all and it is probably no worse than injecting stingy ketamine or forcing iso inhalation over a long period. I then inject pentobarb into the brainstem once they are non responsive with no heartbeat.

For IBD testing it is best to submit tissues for histopath given you should have a deceased specimen if all goes to plan. I aim for brain, adrenal (if identifiable), spleen, kidney and liver to give a reasonable chance of identification as not all viscera will be affected in all cases.

Marie

Re: Snake euthanasia

Suzanne Kelly — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 15:06:54 GMT

Can I just put its head in a mask and gas it? My gas chamber is teeny and its a 6.5kg carpet Python.

Re: Snake euthanasia

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 15:00:20 GMT

Catherine - if you are anaesthetising first why bother with pentoject and not just pith them?

Re: Snake euthanasia

CatherineThomas — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 14:46:38 GMT

You can also use a doppler probe (from your blood pressure monitor) to find the heart, it should be around 1/3rd of the distance from the head.

If you are checking for IBD i'm guessing it's some kind of python or boa - could be quite a big snake. If you can't get it in your gas chamber you could anaesthetise with ketamine first although it will need quite a large dose 60-80mg/kg, takes about 30 mins to have full effect. It can also take a long time for the gas to work so make sure you allow plenty of time either way.

Once the heart has stopped it is best to pith to ensure it is really dead.

For IBD the best way would be to do post mortem exam and take samples for histopath - liver, kidneys and pancreas are the main ones which should show inclusion bodies. PALs do a PCR test for it from an oesophageal swab but I think you are more likely to get a false negative.

Re: Snake euthanasia

David Mills — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 12:26:08 GMT

Gas then intracardiac. Locate either by palpation or ultrasound.