Sarcoid treatment with BCG vaccine

Re: Sarcoid treatment with BCG vaccine

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 21 Feb 2015 01:38:57 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

How the heck did BCG end up in short supply?

[/quote]

Because MSD make the stuff. Same people in the last few years who've had interrupted supplies of Ringvac, Toxovax, Enzovax, Scabivax (twice), Bovipast RSP, Huskvac.........

(not forgetting no Chronogest sponges and PMSG this autumn)

http://www.baus.org.uk/Updates/news/news-archive/2014/Nov2014/BCGupdate

Re: Sarcoid treatment with BCG vaccine

mariette asselbergs — Fri, 20 Feb 2015 17:56:09 GMT

NVS must be guarding it!

Re: Sarcoid treatment with BCG vaccine

Bob Russell — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 10:17:42 GMT

How the heck did BCG end up in short supply?

Re: Sarcoid treatment with BCG vaccine

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:17:04 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Our patients also deserve the best treatment.

[/quote]

True, but if there is limited supply of a drug then its use in humans should be prioritised over its use in animals. In the same way we are advised not to treat animals with some of the antibiotics used to treat MRSA in humans.

Re: Sarcoid treatment with BCG vaccine

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:36:33 GMT

Our patients also deserve the best treatment.

Wynne

Re: Sarcoid treatment with BCG vaccine

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 22:40:51 GMT

I know a chap with bladder cancer. They want to do BCG treatment but it is in short supply. Seems wasteful injecting it into horses and badgers when people are going without.

Re: Sarcoid treatment with BCG vaccine

Busybee — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:55:31 GMT

Finally did the first treatment of this today. Worked beautifully with an old TB gun and longer schimmel needle. No adrenaline required today - fingers crossed that continues for the rest of the treatment course!

Re: Sarcoid treatment with BCG vaccine

mariette asselbergs — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 22:40:28 GMT

What would interest me is: can you just buy BCG vaccin? And can you just use it without a license or something?

I am vaccinating badgers and the so-called "badger BCG is just bog standard BCG with a label "badger BCG". However, it is treated and guarded as if it is morphine to the square root. Every year the NVS refuses to sell it to me until somebody in Defra (Fera) is kind enough to interfere and convince them that I can be trusted with it. And it is insanely expensive compared to the human BCG which cost pennies on the world market!

Mariette

Re: Sarcoid treatment with BCG vaccine

Busybee — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 20:31:03 GMT

Thank you all. I managed to speak to Prof K himself today for all the details. He said the hardest part is the physical act of the injection, and in 5000 cases, they've had 1 anaphylaxis so fingers crossed! Will be pricing it up and speaking to the owner tomorrow.

Re: Sarcoid treatment with BCG vaccine

Wren — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 09:15:52 GMT

I've done it a few times. As Phil says it is technically quite tricky as they are very hard to inject into. Make sure your needle is firmly attached to the syringe. They're usually peri-ocular sarcoids which makes them doubly fiddly. I always drew up the dex and had the adrenalin on standby, but never needed them, and speaking to various colleagues none of them ever had anaphylaxsis either, so don't be too put off by the scary warnings! I can't remember whether you pre-med with flunixin or not but it might not be a bad idea.

All of mine had very good clinical outcomes so worth the hassle (and considerable expense to the owner).

Re: Sarcoid treatment with BCG vaccine

Phil Hyde — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 05:46:20 GMT

I used this technique a couple of times about 25 years ago. Injecting the vaccine into to base of the sarcoid was not easy, they are very dense. Tended to waste a lot of vaccine. Both cases I treated did nothing for the first four injections, I was just about to give up when they rapidly resolved between visits. It's a long time ago, but I think the time between injections was about 3 to 4 weeks; I can't be sure. It did work though.

Re: Sarcoid treatment with BCG vaccine

Anthony Dennison — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 04:24:39 GMT

This is interesting. One of my cases is a cat with feline sarcoids on it's upper lip. Would the BCG vaccine be applicable here?

Re: Sarcoid treatment with BCG vaccine

mariette asselbergs — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 00:47:37 GMT

I don't know about sarcoid, but I do know about treating venereal condylomas (or whatever they call them now) in dogs with 2x BCG injections under the tumour, which worked fabulously! It was also used in cattle with carcinomas of the third eyelid, but that is obviously not possible here. As far as I know it is also used in people with bladder tumours.

Mariette

Re: Sarcoid treatment with BCG vaccine

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 21 Oct 2014 20:22:28 GMT

Liverpool know what they are doing. I just blindly do what they say. You only pay once per case for advice.