Tortoise blood sample

Re: Tortoise blood sample

Robin Grimmer — Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:24:39 GMT

Update: couldn't get a blood sample today. Even though only 400g we couldn't manage to get the tail out! I didn't feel confident enough to try the scs. My colleague had used the jugular so might try that next time. The tortoise is picking up a little. He had been septicaemia once before and responded to Fortum. Unfortunately it's no longer available so stuck with Baytril unless anyone has any ideas.

Re: Tortoise blood sample

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:24:11 GMT

Total agreement refer what you're not comfortable with

Wynne

Re: Tortoise blood sample

HMC — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 14:47:19 GMT

[quote user="CatherineThomas"]I think that if you are willing to try these things and the owner knows your limitations I don't see a problem with it. Do what you can and refer when you are no longer comfortable with it. [/quote]

[quote user="CatherineThomas"]You can always call your local exotics referral centre for advice to make sure you aren't going too far wrong or ask on here. [/quote]

Re: Tortoise blood sample

CatherineThomas — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 14:43:34 GMT

I think that if you are willing to try these things and the owner knows your limitations I don't see a problem with it. Do what you can and refer when you are no longer comfortable with it. The cases which frustrate me are the ones where a vet has looked at a bird or reptile, not done any tests and declared the animal healthy or prescribed antibiotics without an indication and without even offering referral so making things more difficult when it does get referred or the owner goes for a second opinion further down the line. You can always call your local exotics referral centre for advice to make sure you aren't going too far wrong or ask on here.

Re: Tortoise blood sample

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 14:18:54 GMT

I'm lucky to have a really good referral bod near to me - so why not give the best advice for the patient?

Wynne

Re: Tortoise blood sample

HMC — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:58:44 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Rabbits, GPs smallfurries birds - I'm fine with. I do find reptiles bewildering - in the case of tortoises,it's the invisibility of most of the patient I find most challenging. Fortunately, I do have a locally based exotic espert I can refer to - and I feel this is in my patient's best interests.

Wynne

[/quote]

I think it depends on a case-by-case basis. Blood sampling a tortoise from the jugular- I'll have a go, especially after reading up and watching a video; guinea pig blood sample from the cranial vena cava, I have tried (failed) but that was much scarier. So I would not say that just because it's a tortoise I won't do anything with it.

Re: Tortoise blood sample

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 09:42:43 GMT

Well, I must admit that I find taking a blood sample from a tortoise without any sedation can be a challenge - it's like getting blood from a stone! (pun absolutely and completely intended!)

Re: Tortoise blood sample

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:52:13 GMT

Wynne

Re: Tortoise blood sample

Marie Kubiak — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 18:50:29 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Sticking a needle anywhere other than IM in an animal whose anatomy is unfamiliar to me. The GtoPC is adamant that we should (other than in emergencies) confine ourselves to what is within our level of competance. I'm one of the few who can still both calve a cow, and spay a bitch, but I don't claim competance with reptiles - and think they deserve to be treated by someone who does understand them

Wynne

[/quote]

But, playing devil's advocate, isn't this where ongoing CPD comes in? Exotic pets can no longer be ignored as a quirk of the odd members of society and some species are seen in first opinion practice on a fairly frequent basis. Rabbits, tortoises, chickens and budgies are not rare pets so is it unreasonable to expect GP vets to be able to do basic procedures in them if we are demanding these as day one competencies in new grads?

Marie

Re: Tortoise blood sample

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 17:32:47 GMT

Wynne

Re: Tortoise blood sample

HMC — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 16:04:03 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Refer, refer, refer!

I'd be terrified that the damage I might do in trying to take the sample would be greater than the information I might obtain would justify.

Principle of "1st do no harm"

Wynne

[/quote]

Disagree. What is/are your concern(s)?

Re: Tortoise blood sample

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 15:19:36 GMT

Refer, refer, refer!

I'd be terrified that the damage I might do in trying to take the sample would be greater than the information I might obtain would justify.

Principle of "1st do no harm"

Wynne

Arlo - don't you have a smiley for runing away in fright

Re: Tortoise blood sample

HMC — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:46:17 GMT

I got a sample recently from the jugular. There is a video of this on vetsurgeon.org somewhere (galleries perhaps). I had to use 2 assistants: one to hold the head out (they're very strong!) and one to hold the body/shell (seemed to help having the body higher than the head so that gravity aids blood flow, especially as the jugular is not being raised). I said on my post at the time that I would not send to Idexx again as they did not even try to interpret the results.

Good luck

Re: Tortoise blood sample

Robin Grimmer — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:44:29 GMT

Thanks! I will pm you.

Re: Tortoise blood sample

Marie Kubiak — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:42:24 GMT

1. Sub carapacial sinus: sits underneath the front of the carapace just caudal, and dorsal, to where the head sits when fully retracted.

2. Dorsal tail vein - exactly as it sounds!

Tried to insert videos but I keep getting the error message that the connection has been reset... I can email them to you?

Marie