Painful chicken

Re: Painful chicken

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 00:41:12 GMT

[quote user="Sammy82"] I prefer my breakfast eggs without traces of ABs.[/quote]

Me too.

Re: Painful chicken

Sammy82 — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 00:29:26 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

I may have missed something, but I've always considered that oral dosing was one problem chickens did not give us. They have a huge oesophagus and a crop and a gizzard. I just give them tablets as tablets: you can push one down into the crop with a finger... follow with a small scloosh of water if you're not happy it's gone down. Anything liquid you can do with a 2ml syringe, no need for crop tubes.

[/quote]

Of course it's easy to give tablets to hens, and at least you can be sure it got the full dose. The issue is the compliance with the medicine regulations. Most tablets are not licensed for food producing animals (apart from Synulox boluses etc f calves), so to comply with the cascade ABs licenced for laying hens should be used. I prefer my breakfast eggs without traces of ABs.

Re: Painful chicken

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 12 Aug 2014 20:50:25 GMT

Tiamulin (denagard concentrate for oral dosing) is relatively cheap per dose, easy to administer to small quantities of back yard chickens and has zero egg withdrawal. Licensed for mycoplasma.

Re: Painful chicken

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 12 Aug 2014 19:23:04 GMT

Re: Painful chicken

Sammy82 — Tue, 12 Aug 2014 18:03:16 GMT

I used this as well, if I remember right I used the Danilon measuring spoon after using scales to work out how much a spoonful weighs- cannot remember what this was though, and don't work in that practice anymore where it will be all written down on the bottle. Bisolvon also comes with tiny spoons which could be useful for measuring, you are probably more likely to have this in stock in a small animal practice.. And do the dispensing in a well ventilated, but not drafty, area. Consider wearing a mask, I still remember tasting it in the air although there was no visible dust.

Re: Painful chicken

CatherineThomas — Tue, 12 Aug 2014 17:42:21 GMT

Tylan soluble is useful to keep in stock. I don't think it is excessively expensive for a pot and it is licensed and needs no egg withdrawal. You do need to be able to measure out 1g of powder though so need some small scales.

Re: Painful chicken

Thomas Johnson — Tue, 12 Aug 2014 16:16:06 GMT

[quote user="Rebecca Benge"]

What types of antibiotic do people generally like to keep in stock for chickens given the choice?

[/quote]

I've crushed up Synulox tablets in the past, the dose is quite high though, 125mg/kg bid

Re: Painful chicken

Rebecca MacMillan — Tue, 12 Aug 2014 15:23:58 GMT

[quote user="Gareth C."]

clindamycin tablets ground up and administered with water in a syringe at chicken bedtime quite a good ab regime for hens.

[/quote]

I'm really quite limited as to what antibiotics I can give chickens in my current practice... we don't see many of them so don't keep any meds in stock. Baytril is what has been used previously, but this isn't much use if the owners intend on eating their eggs in the future. I'm never sure what I can use otherwise? Do others use clindamycin as above?

What types of antibiotic do people generally like to keep in stock for chickens given the choice?

Re: Painful chicken

Fiona Chapman — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 21:33:17 GMT

[quote user="Suzanne Kelly"]

Leonie chicken update! She's doing great, has made a full recovery. Re the Baytril, yes I knew that it was not licensed for use in laying hens. The owners were told never to eat her eggs again, but that's the case with suprelorin too. Diagnosis never really made. I posted her radiographs on an american exotics forum and someone there thought she had a # pelvis, but walking was never an issue for her. I got a radiology specialist friend to have a look and she didn't think there were any #s either.

So I still haven't spayed a chicken. If anyone has any info/links/articles on how to spay a chicken I'd be very pleased!

Suzanne

[/quote]

http://www.chickenvet.co.uk/

The vets at thechickenvet (see above) could probably give you some advice/guidance re salpingectomy, they do articles but I think you have to be an associated practice to access them. Never done one myself I'm afraid!

Re: Painful chicken

Gareth C. — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:44:34 GMT

clindamycin tablets ground up and administered with water in a syringe at chicken bedtime quite a good ab regime for hens.

Re: Painful chicken

Sammy82 — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 10:59:04 GMT

And even with rabbits you have to be careful. Not so much in the UK, but in Germany it's fairly common to breed/keep a few rabbits in the back yard for meat production. Not the dwarves, but 5kg ones.

edit: And it's usually a few rabbits kept in hutches like most pet rabbits, not these horrible wire cage commercial rabbit farming you get when you google for it.

Glad to here the chicken is better, they can be such tricky patients

Re: Painful chicken

Suzanne Kelly — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 23:14:36 GMT

So I still haven't spayed a chicken. If anyone has any info/links/articles on how to spay a chicken I'd be very pleased!

Suzanne

Re: Painful chicken

Stephen Courtney — Sun, 13 Jul 2014 23:02:55 GMT

Thanks for the info Busybee!

Treating chickens is complicated by their potential for food production, whereas you can pretty much try anything sensible , with appropriate informed consent, on a gerbil or a bearded dragon. i don't think any of my clients are likely to eat their rabbits, but the same cannot be said for some of their dogs....

Re: Painful chicken

Busybee — Sun, 13 Jul 2014 20:12:30 GMT

Baytril 2.5% inj - not licensed for any food producing species

Baytril 5% inj - licensed for cattle (meat withdrawal 14d) & pigs (meat withdrawal 10d, ), not poultry. NOT permitted for use in animals producing milk for human consumption.

Baytril 10% inj - licensed for cattle (meat withdawal 4-10d depending on route, milk 72-84hrs), & pigs (meat withdrawal 10d).

Baytril 2.5% oral - NOT for use in poultry (as stated on data sheet)

Baytril 10% oral - licensed for use in chickens (meat withdrawal 7 days) but NOT authorised for use in bird producing eggs for human consumption.

The below statement from the VMD list of approved substances in food producing animals sums it up...

"Enrofloxacin....not for use in animals from which eggs are produced for human consumption." This is enrofloxacin as a drug no matter in what form.

Re: Painful chicken

Emily Rainbow — Sun, 13 Jul 2014 18:03:27 GMT

Isn't it because it's use in laying hens is listed specifically on the drugs sheets as not allowed rather than a cascade issue.

Re: Painful chicken

Stephen Courtney — Sun, 13 Jul 2014 17:55:07 GMT

I think you have a point about baytril - I remember something in a VDS newsletter about using antibiotics in a pet hen that then suddenly turned out to have the most valuable eggs in the world...

I thought it was baytril in the article, but perhaps my memory is letting me down.

Re: Painful chicken

Sammy82 — Sun, 13 Jul 2014 12:24:06 GMT

What exactly is the legislation regarding the use of Baytril? Baytril (at least the 5%+10% inj)is licensed for food producing animals (calves), therefore should not kick the chicken out of the food chain if used under the cascade. Suprelorin and Rimadyl do, as they are not licensed for any food producing animal and can therefore not be used under the cascade.

Please correct me if this is wrong.

Re: Painful chicken

Suzanne Kelly — Sat, 12 Jul 2014 23:22:21 GMT

Thanks Stephen. Suprelorin puts them forever out of the food chain too. It's duration seems to be really variable, I'm getting about 4 -6 months out of the 4.7 mg ones, I haven't tried the 9.4mg yet. I've a lot of clients that have 2-3 hens that they got purely to have their own eggs. Then they become adored pets and they don't care about the eggs anymore, they just want their little buddy to be happy and healthy. Suzanne

Re: Painful chicken

Stephen Courtney — Sat, 12 Jul 2014 23:07:28 GMT

It seems to me you have done everything right, except perhaps choice of antibiotic - using baytril puts the chicken and her eggs forever out of the human food chain, so the owner needs to be aware of this...how long does the suprelorin implant last in a hen?

Rubbery and shell less eggs imply various viral diseases if i remember and i would worry about the possibility of an egg peritonitis but the radiographs look pretty normal.

And well done for doing proper work on a chicken, nice to have a client who will let you do the work up!

Re: Painful chicken

Suzanne Kelly — Fri, 11 Jul 2014 20:30:09 GMT

Blood work and radiographs included. The owner declined referral. Yes I've done digital exam for fragments, none found. Ultrasound - I had no idea what I was looking at TBH. No free fluid. Anyhow > meds to BID and Leonie now happier, abdo palpation non painful, eating better too, so no ex-lap done, phew! Re PTS the bird is bright and active and chatty, is eating and in relatively good form, just not as bright as usual, so no not yet. If it was a dog or cat with this picture I wouldn't be reaching for the blue juice so I don't see why I shouldn't be giving her my best shot just because she's a chicken.

Re: Painful chicken

Suzanne Kelly — Fri, 11 Jul 2014 20:25:03 GMT

                         CLINICAL COMMENTS

                          BIOCHEMISTRY
Exotic Screen
Total protein            * 45          g/L       High ( 33 - 35 )
Albumin                    15          g/L            ( 13 - 28 )
Globulin                 * 30          g/L       High ( 17 - 19 )
Albumin Globulin ratio     0.5
Sodium                     154         mmol/l
Potassium                  3.6         mmol/l
Total calcium              3.62        mmol/L         (3.3 - 5.92)
Ionised Calcium            1.87        mmol/l
Uric acid                  336         umol/L         (148.7-481.7)
AST                        299         U/L
GLDH                       1           U/L
Glucose                  * 8.2         mmol/L    Low ( 12.6- 16.6)
CK                         10617       U/L

Serum quality              Hep Good

                          HAEMATOLOGY
RBC                        2.8         x10^12/L       (2.5 - 3.5 )
Hb                         11.4        g/dl           (7.0 - 13.0)
HCT                        34          %              (22.0 - 35.0)
MCV                        121.4       fl             (90.0 -140.0)
MCH                        40.7        pg             (33.0 - 47.0)
MCHC                       33.5        %              (26.0 - 35.0)
WBC                      * 8.0         x10^9/L   Low (12.0 - 30.0)
Heterophils                57.0% 4.56 x10^9/L        (3.0 - 6.0 )
Lymphocytes              * 37.0% 2.96 x10^9/L   Low (7.0 - 17.5)
Monocytes                   4.0% 0.32 x10^9/L        (0.15- 2.0 )
Eosinophils                 0.0% 0.00 x10^9/L        (0.0 - 1.0 )
Basophils                   2.0% 0.16 x10^9/L
Blood Film Examination     2 of the 4 submitted fresh blood smears and a film
                           made from the submitted EDTA were examined. Red
                           cells appear normocytic and normochromic with no
                           evidence of increased polychromasia. Low numbers of
                           metamyelocytes are evident. No other abnormal cells
                           noted despite the mild lymphopaenia. Thrombocyte
                            count
                           and morphology appear normal on smear evaluation.
                           Thanks for the submitted good quality smears from
                           Leonie.

Re: Painful chicken

Suzanne Kelly — Fri, 11 Jul 2014 20:24:00 GMT

Re: Painful chicken

vanessab — Fri, 11 Jul 2014 16:04:34 GMT

Have you tried digital palpation for egg fragments or ultrasound?

Re: Painful chicken

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 11 Jul 2014 15:24:24 GMT

I suspect the prognosis is very poor and the kindest thing may be to euthanase the bird on humane grounds.

Re: Painful chicken

Suzanne Kelly — Thu, 10 Jul 2014 23:12:53 GMT

When I palpate her abdomen caudally she kind of hunches up and seems to wince. She's not a bit happy when I palpate her. I've examined her a few times prior to all this and she had no problem with her abdomen being palpated. So not a very technical explanation! I'm hoping the owners will agree to referral. I see lots of pet chickens and enjoy seeing them but am no expert.