rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Tony Knapp — Wed, 09 Jul 2014 09:41:44 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Wow. I am amazed at all these people who have no complications. I have been castrating rabbits for 15 years....we do a lot of rabbits here (will have a few rabbit neuters in most weeks) ...... And we've obviously had a few (fortunately minor) post op complications. Same as with every other op we do. I can't believe that anyone can have done a significant number of any op....and NEVER had a complication!!!!

[/quote]

I suppose I should specify, no complications from the procedure, We have had a couple of aneasthetic complications in rabbits, but fortunatly rare.

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 23:26:05 GMT

I do very few bunnies, but having read on this forum I stopped using catgut for my ligatures and do it all with vicryl now.

I'm never convinced by the sterility of the catgut on reels, but no obvious problems from their use.

(I also do single, pre-scrotal)

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Marie Kubiak — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 18:53:52 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

Do you think these are just related to material choice or poor sterile technique?

[/quote]

I have seen several severe complications related to cat gut and none related to others so I am presuming the material is the biggest factor - if failure of sterile technique was to blame there should be an equal distribution of complications between materials and I haven't seen that.

Marie

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Rob Loxley — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 13:39:45 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]We have also had some referrals sent over of cat gut neuters with horrendous scrotal abscesses[/quote]

Do you think these are just related to material choice or poor sterile technique?

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Marie Kubiak — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 11:48:34 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[/quote]

I agree, there is no op that is 100% risk free so do enough and you'll get a few that don't go exactly to plan. We get the odd one who nibbles a wound edge or isn't eating well at 2d post op check (despite owners being told to call if any concerns with appetite/faecal production...) but nothing too scary so far fortunately and I can only think of a handful of cases in the last few years, all of which did fine after medical treatment.

We have also had some referrals sent over of cat gut neuters with horrendous scrotal abscesses or abdominal sterile steatitis, one who had already been reopened 3 times!!!

Marie

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 07 Jul 2014 09:36:37 GMT

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Tony Knapp — Sun, 06 Jul 2014 23:42:01 GMT

[quote user="Nicola M"]Looks like I'm in a minority of 1 then with the single pre-scrotal incision! Is it just people find that takes longer or have people had problems with pre-scrotal? More than happy to go with the consensus and give separate scrotal incisions a go....always just presumed two incisions would take longer than one (but anything to decrease rabbit GA time is obviously a bonus!) I should probably also check then: rabbit spays-do most people do intradermals or is tissue glue sufficient? I've always done intradermals but obviously more tissue handling and will take longer than glue.

[/quote]

I do a single prescrotal too, I do open castrate, suture the tunic and prefer to use glue for the skin, but don't usually have any so have to suture, had no complications and find it nice and quick. Some of my colleagues use the scrotal leave open technique and also have no issues,

so it seems 6 of one...

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Suzanne Kelly — Sun, 06 Jul 2014 17:45:29 GMT

+1 for intradermals for spays

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Rob Loxley — Sat, 05 Jul 2014 13:02:49 GMT

Castrates - 2 cranial scrotal incisons, open tunic to make sure all testicle removed and then a ligature below this level (so in effect 'closed'), tissue glue skin

Spays - intradermal vicryl sutures

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Nicola Cole — Fri, 04 Jul 2014 19:57:36 GMT

Looks like I'm in a minority of 1 then with the single pre-scrotal incision! Is it just people find that takes longer or have people had problems with pre-scrotal? More than happy to go with the consensus and give separate scrotal incisions a go....always just presumed two incisions would take longer than one (but anything to decrease rabbit GA time is obviously a bonus!) I should probably also check then: rabbit spays-do most people do intradermals or is tissue glue sufficient? I've always done intradermals but obviously more tissue handling and will take longer than glue.

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Linda Filshie — Fri, 04 Jul 2014 08:05:06 GMT

I use 0.03mg/kg buprenorphine premed, gas down gradually with iso after pre-oxygenation, and place a v-gel. I only started to use the v-gels relatively recently but after some initial teething problems I'm beginning to like them.

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

nikki — Fri, 04 Jul 2014 00:29:04 GMT

for healthy neuters we usually use triple IM dom/ket/torb at 0.2ml/kg/0.1ml/kg/0.1ml/kg. Tried giving SC but found it didn't work as well. Even with those doses often find have to top up with iso for spays. For dentals we use half those doses as not as much stimulation and they're often not 100% well.

castration technique - i did try one prescrotal incision for a whle but find 2 scrotal is actually quicker, cranial end, closed castrate, vicryl ligs and skin glue.

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Suzanne Kelly — Thu, 03 Jul 2014 23:44:59 GMT

While we're on the subject of bunnies, what are people using for anaesthesia for routine spays, castrates and dentals? I use injectable dom/torb/ket 0.2ml/0.05ml/0.1ml /kg all s/c. Bunnies are put onto oxygen as soon as they start to look sleepy. Apparently my dose of domitor is super high, but unless I give a little lignocaine into the testes and scrotum I find I have to put them on iso. I only intubate them if they're breath holding or being weird. I haven't tried the V gels yet. I've had no problems with this combo except when I've given it i/m, I had 2 bunnies drop dead, so it's s/c only now.

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Linda Filshie — Thu, 03 Jul 2014 23:32:57 GMT

Incisions over cranial third of each testicle, blunt dissect caudally with metzenbaums, closed castrate and glue for me.

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Niall Taylor — Thu, 03 Jul 2014 21:23:44 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

I make two incisions, one over each testicle, closed castration, and leave them open.

[/quote]

Me too, with the incisions cranial to middle.

Niall

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Ashley Sykes — Thu, 03 Jul 2014 21:23:36 GMT

I do what some others have mentioned: scrotal incision, mid to cranial third, closed castrations. Grip firmly with ratties and makes sure every single bit of outer tunic-layers attaching tunic to scrotum are removed (gubernaculum / outer fascia). I do loads of rabbit castrates (did two today) and have zero (touch wood) complications with this, but have seen others (and my self earlier) in which these outer layers are not as well removed, and do have complications. I hypothesise that later when the vessels within the closed tunic are contracting back in that the ligatures around the tunic stay fairly attached to these outer layers and pull of the end, causing bleeding that day or next day.

Oh, and used to skin glue scrotum, now leave open, again zero complications with this.

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Rachael Winder — Thu, 03 Jul 2014 19:02:23 GMT

Ditto Marie. We use monocryl for ligatures and a suture in each side of the tunic, then glue the skin. No complications touch wood!

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Marie Kubiak — Thu, 03 Jul 2014 18:00:41 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]I'd like to start glueing the skin of rabbit castrates as apparantly it causes less reaction and saves the fiddly bit at the end. 2 queries, any issues and where do you incise? 15 years ago an RSPCA vet who did loads suggested 2 incisions almost at the caudal end but I can't quite remember if this was correct . Neil[/quote]

I do two separate incisions in the cranial scrotum, open castrate then suture tunic closed and glue skin. Seems to be quick and safe. I wouldn't use catgut as it is associated with marked reaction in some rabbits - severe steatitis is the result in those that react and can be horrendous. I use monocryl but have also used vicryl without complications.

Marie

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Neil Wheadon — Thu, 03 Jul 2014 14:29:49 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"][quote user="Gillian Mostyn"] I often find that 'sounds of the sixties' compilations can be rather good.[/quote]Ho, ho![/quote]

I comes to us all

After seeing Monty Python last night, I was all ready this morning to answer the 'should this dog have Metacam?' with 'Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition' and found that only one person in the building (there are at least 20) had the slightest idea what that meant

Neil

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 03 Jul 2014 14:13:57 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"] I often find that 'sounds of the sixties' compilations can be rather good.[/quote]Ho, ho!

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 03 Jul 2014 14:01:33 GMT

What a shame Martin... I often find that 'sounds of the sixties' compilations can be rather good.

Anyway, back to the OP. I do closed, 2 small incisions in caudal pole of scrotal sacs- peel skin back of the testis with fingers and swabs before crushing and then ligating. Pull the skin back to cover the stumps and leave open. Problems very rare but worst have been some mild bleeding and one abscess.

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Neil Wheadon — Thu, 03 Jul 2014 13:40:30 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I used to do a single incision pre-scrotal approach like a dog but now make a small incision over the caudal pole of each scrotum, milk out the testis , incise the tunica, open castration (the reason I don't like closed technique is I'm never happy I can get the ligatures tight enough to prevent slippage of the blood vessel), close tunica with single ligature of catgut, close skin with tissue adhesive. Quick safe and no compilations., [/quote]

Which is in a nutshell, how I would like to do them with the reasons stated, so the last sentence is re-assuring

Neil

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 03 Jul 2014 10:47:00 GMT

I used to do a single incision pre-scrotal approach like a dog but now make a small incision over the caudal pole of each scrotum, milk out the testis , incise the tunica, open castration (the reason I don't like closed technique is I'm never happy I can get the ligatures tight enough to prevent slippage of the blood vessel), close tunica with single ligature of catgut, close skin with tissue adhesive. Quick safe and no compilations.,

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Kathryn Burton — Thu, 03 Jul 2014 10:14:21 GMT

I make one incision over each testicle too, and do closed castration unless I inadvertently open the tunic in which case I close it afterwards! Then glue in the skin.

Re: rabbit castrates - stitch or glue?

Thomas Johnson — Thu, 03 Jul 2014 08:48:08 GMT

[quote user="Suzanne Kelly"]

I make 2 incisions as well and do closed or semi closed ( depends on how deep my incision goes). I either leave them open or glue them. I went through a prescrotal phase, but I reverted back to the 2 incisions as I find they heal more quickly

[/quote]

I also went through a pre-scrotal phase before going back to 2 incisions in the middle of the scrotum, I find it quicker to do and they heal more quickly too. I usually do them open and then close the tunic, and then glue the skin.