geriatric rabbit anaesthesia question

Re: geriatric rabbit anaesthesia question

Charlotte Marshall — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 17:24:20 GMT

No but I use dom/tob/ket in bunnies and give to effect I/v and with old bunnies tend to start with a very small amount. We used our V Gel for the first time last week in a 9 year old bunny with this combo and although we had to wiggle it a bit at first to get the Vgel positioned right it did ok.

I would be interested to know what doses you are using for your bup,midaz,medetomidine combo.

Re: geriatric rabbit anaesthesia question

Rob Davis — Mon, 09 Jun 2014 17:51:52 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]Has anyone used midaz/ket iv for induction in rabbits? One of our med cert holders likes it for older or fragile cats.[/quote]

I use it I/M in fragile cats - generally good sedation with minimal cardiorespiratory suppression, but never tried it in bunnies.

Re: geriatric rabbit anaesthesia question

Marie Kubiak — Mon, 09 Jun 2014 16:47:42 GMT

Haven't used acp in bunnies so can't help there.

I have found propofol really awkward- some rabbits need only a tiny dose, others need huge amounts and some become apnoeic. For single agent IV induction I prefer alfaxan and dilute it in sterile saline to truly give to effect and avoid the tendency to give it too quickly. Having said that I do still tend to use my bupre/midaz/medetom combo in older bunnies but drop the medetomidine dose. I can reverse both medetom and midaz if needed but as yet have never had to.

Has anyone used midaz/ket iv for induction in rabbits? One of our med cert holders likes it for older or fragile cats.

Marie

Re: geriatric rabbit anaesthesia question

HMC — Mon, 09 Jun 2014 14:37:47 GMT

Propofol sounds promising then. I don't particularly like the idea of giving induction agents/sedatives subcut and thereby losing the titration to effect. Though Michael's way of the reversing the medetomidine helps address that to some extent. But I think I'll try propofol.

Re: geriatric rabbit anaesthesia question

Rob Davis — Mon, 09 Jun 2014 12:03:15 GMT

I have used propofol IV for almost all my rabbit GAs for over a decade. I've never had significant problems with apnoea (I do give it slowly and always pre-oxygenate), and find they tend to wake up really well. Until recently I tubed (blind technique) whenever possible, though can't claim a 100% success rate. Recently we bought the v-gel tubes and this has made that stage much easier (though I don't use them for dental procedures).

You do need high doses of propofol - I tend to give 0.2ml/kg as a pre-med before giving O2 by mask for 2 minutes, then top up to effect (I expect to use a total of around 1ml/kg, though sometimes they require more)

I have considered using ACP/bupernorphine pre-med, but haven't tried it as yet.

Re: geriatric rabbit anaesthesia question

Yantha Smyth — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 12:32:09 GMT

For non geriatric GAs I have been doing a 'premed' of metacam and buprenorphine SQ, followed by medetomidine and ketamine 0.15ml/kg of each, also given SQ then maintaining on O2, with some ISO if needed. If hypnorm is not available and you are used to using that, but want to avoid medetomidine, I would suggest ketamine plus midazolam or diazepam, after an opioid premed.

Re: geriatric rabbit anaesthesia question

Thomas Johnson — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 09:17:32 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Bose"]

What are other people's experience of propofol in rabbits? And what do people use for geriatric rabbits? Sorry, that was a round-about way of getting to my point!

[/quote]

I've never got the hang of tubing rabbits, but last year we got the V-gel tubes, since then I have been inducing rabbits with propofol i/v slowly to effect after an opiate pre-med i/m. I've not had any problems with apnoea.

Re: geriatric rabbit anaesthesia question

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 07 Jun 2014 21:05:00 GMT

To be fair I've always used medetomidine/ketamine in the same syringe - maintain on O2 with Iso if needed. The medetomidine is a massive dose compared to what you'd give a dog (something like 1ml/4kg IIRC - don't hold me to that!). In older/sick debilitated bunnies then I reverse once asleep and maintain on iso.

I don't do enough to mess about IV.