re rabbit with possible hepatic coccidiosis ... and the rodentologist

Re: re rabbit with possible hepatic coccidiosis ... and the rodentologist

grumpyoldman — Fri, 23 May 2014 00:04:55 GMT

[quote user="Sammy82"]"get 2 MRCVS signatures confirming the opinion." Is this legally getting you off the hook? I thought you would need a court/police/AHVLA order to be allowed to treat or euthanise an animal against the legal owner's wishes?[/quote]

Not about getting off the hook, its about prevention of unnecessary suffering , with unreasonable irrational clients ,its the advice given out by a local Diplomate who has the misfortune to deal with these people far more often than I do .

Re: re rabbit with possible hepatic coccidiosis ... and the rodentologist

Sammy82 — Thu, 22 May 2014 22:54:57 GMT

"get 2 MRCVS signatures confirming the opinion." Is this legally getting you off the hook? I thought you would need a court/police/AHVLA order to be allowed to treat or euthanise an animal against the legal owner's wishes?

Re: re rabbit with possible hepatic coccidiosis ... and the rodentologist

tess — Wed, 21 May 2014 20:24:31 GMT

Could there also be a husbandry issue if coccidia is a problem? Not sure how you would tackle that one though...

Re: re rabbit with possible hepatic coccidiosis ... and the rodentologist

grumpyoldman — Wed, 21 May 2014 18:48:26 GMT

We have had looneys pre and post rodentologist intervention , its usually guinea pig weirdos ,with dying GPs , that will not accept the inevitable , have you doing extensive work ups ,then buggering off without paying for all the work , ringing all hours , arranging referrals ,then not showing up , visiting them , making marks and indentations in food to make it look as if the patient has been nibbling , we actually have one of these nutters doing it on CCTV . My advice is make them pay up front ,and if you have to euthanise something on humane grounds against the wishes of an exotics looney, get 2 MRCVS signatures confirming the opinion.

Re: re rabbit with possible hepatic coccidiosis ... and the rodentologist

Bob Russell — Wed, 21 May 2014 17:25:08 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]

Toltrazuril dose I use is 7mg/kg sid for 2d, repeat 1 wk later. However, I would only prescribe if I had done a post-mortem myself or had a verified report from another vet/pathologist that supported the 'diagnosis' and had examined at least a reasonable selection of the live animals (ideally all plus the set-up on a visit).

We have had a rabbit with atypical TB so bear this in mind, plus Yersinia,Clostridia, fluke, tapeworm cysts and toxin ingestion. Impression smears from cut liver surface and gall bladder contents can be very useful but I'm sure the owner has already done these

Marie

[/quote]

Sorry Marie to nick your expertise but it is filed on my computer under things I will not remember but should!

A Rodentologist does not require a post-mortem, nor to visit the set-up. They have all had part of an afternoon on diagnostics so have far more knowledge than a qualified veterinary surgeon. Sadly we are becoming redundant as we bow down to their superior knowledge!

Re: re rabbit with possible hepatic coccidiosis ... and the rodentologist

Marie Kubiak — Wed, 21 May 2014 15:42:38 GMT

Marie

Re: re rabbit with possible hepatic coccidiosis ... and the rodentologist

Bob Russell — Wed, 21 May 2014 13:54:03 GMT

Nabbed from Marie Kubiak!!

"The downside to baycox is that it is very alkaline (it was originally designed to be in-water medication for poultry and isn't very soluble so the active drug is amalgamated with a strong alkali to allow it to dissolve). This high pH can be very irritant to the throat lining and cause a lot of discomfort if given neat. We mix it with an acidic liquid (usually coca cola!) to neutralise the pH first and haven't had any problems. However, as most bunnies are fairly unwell to start with it is very easy to assign any problems, especially non-specific ones like stasis, to the original disease rather than a drug side effect so they may not be linked at the time.
Septrin partial resistance is fairly common too which is another reason why I prefer to use baycox where possible."

Re: re rabbit with possible hepatic coccidiosis ... and the rodentologist

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 21 May 2014 13:42:45 GMT

From Merk online

Treatment is difficult, and control rather than cure is expected. Sulfaquinoxaline administered continuously in the drinking water (0.04% for 30 days) prevents clinical signs of hepatic coccidiosis in rabbits heavily exposed to E stiedae. However, it may not prevent the lesions. Sulfaquinoxaline may also be given in the feed at 0.025% for 20 days, or for 2 days out of every 8 until marketing. Because feed-grade sulfaquinoxaline can be difficult to obtain, liquid sulfaquinoxaline is used more commonly. Withdrawal time is 10 days for rabbits used for food. Other coccidiosis treatments do not have approved withdrawal times for meat rabbits. Other sulfa drug treatments include sulfadimethoxine (0.5–0.7 g/L drinking water) and sulfadimerazine (2 g/L drinking water). Other coccidiostats that may prove to be effective include amprolium (9.6% in water or 0.5 mL/500 mL), salinomycin, diclazuril, and toltrazuril. Treatment is best administered for a minimum of 5 days and repeated after 5 days. Rabbits that are treated successfully are immune to subsequent infections.

Treatment will not be successful unless a sanitation program is instituted simultaneously. Elimination of fecal-oral transmission of infective oocysts is achieved by preventing feed hoppers and water crocks from becoming contaminated with feces. Hutches should be kept dry and the accumulated feces removed frequently. Wire cage bottoms should be brushed daily with a wire brush to help break the life cycle of the protozoa. Ammonia (10%) solution is lethal to oocysts and is the best choice to disinfect cages or ancillary equipment exposed to fecal material.

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/exotic_and_laboratory_animals/rabbits/parasitic_diseases_of_rabbits.html

Re: re rabbit with possible hepatic coccidiosis ... and the rodentologist

Caroline Murray — Wed, 21 May 2014 13:24:27 GMT

Hi Bob

Have you used Baycox in rabbits and if so what dose?

They are all vaccinated against calici - apparently, but ran out of time and patience to question her about vaccine protocol as was already 7pm by the time I had time to ring her.

Re your last other comments - totally agree! I am a locum so have referred the refund matter to the practice manager, who is much more skilled in the art of diplomatically telling people to take a running jump than a mere mortal vet.

Re: re rabbit with possible hepatic coccidiosis ... and the rodentologist

Bob Russell — Wed, 21 May 2014 13:11:02 GMT

Baycox for coccidia, a gun or bugger off letter for the client!

You prescribe after making a diagnosis. VHD/RHD perhaps for the sudden death?

Medication cannot be returned for reuse once it leaves the premises, only for disposal!

You have to decide who is the vet and who is the client and who is in charge!