cats with heart murmurs in rescue centres...

Re: cats with heart murmurs in rescue centres...

Rob Loxley — Wed, 09 Apr 2014 12:57:54 GMT

[quote user="Kerry Peak"]Do they documents/guidelines like this for other situations? [/quote]

http://www.cats.org.uk/cat-care/vets-info/

Re: cats with heart murmurs in rescue centres...

Kerry Peak — Wed, 09 Apr 2014 06:31:51 GMT

Our facilities are very basic - we currently have a very old ultrasound machine which I can use to diagnose a large left atrium but this is about it at this stage. We are hopefully getting a new machine soon.

I would be very interested in reading your abstract.

Do you know of any set protocols in use in RSPCA rehoming centres? I'm trying to do my best to manage various issues that I've come across our local centre, but would like to know if I'm doing the right thing!

Re: cats with heart murmurs in rescue centres...

David Mills — Wed, 09 Apr 2014 00:51:05 GMT

Ms Peak, I've worked for the RSPCA for a considerable part of my career, including centres where a lot of stray cats are seen. Indeed, I presented an abstract at BSAVA this year on the very problem you describe - what to do with a stray cat with a murmur that may be rehomeable.

Before I go into detail, a lot depends on your facilities and ability to echo these cats - is this possible, probable, or out of the question? In terms of your confidence, facilities etc. Can then advise accordingly.

Re: cats with heart murmurs in rescue centres...

Kerry Peak — Tue, 08 Apr 2014 20:15:21 GMT

Thankyou all for your input!

I will definitely look in the proBNP testing, I think this will be the most realistic option given our situation.

Rob - The CP document was very helpful thank you. Do they documents/guidelines like this for other situations?

We are in a slightly different position with the RSPCA centre where I work. Because we are somewhat geographically isolated (Isle of Wight) I'm not entirely sure we follow the same rules (wrongly or rightly!). Despite me asking several times about set protocols etc I've been told we don't really have any and the centre here don't seem to have many contacts with others. Does anyone know if the RSPCA do issue similar guidelines?

We probably FIV/FeLV test more cats than other centres. We've developed our own protocol following a bad experience with a litter of kittens that were all rehomed, and all died from FeLV within a few months. Having said this since we have adopted our more thorough testing protocol I don't think we've identified another positive cat!

Thanks again,

Kerry

Re: cats with heart murmurs in rescue centres...

Anthony Dennison — Tue, 08 Apr 2014 17:55:37 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"] I thought that RSCPA was no longer routinely testing for FIV/FELV?[/quote]

Most inspectors that we deal with will ask for it if it's an entire male with war wounds.

Re: cats with heart murmurs in rescue centres...

Robin Grimmer — Tue, 08 Apr 2014 17:27:35 GMT

Re Felv and Fiv, I am seeing a lot fewer cases than I used to. Suspect due to widespread vaccination and more indoor cats. I thought that RSCPA was no longer routinely testing for FIV/FELV? I stand to be corrected.

Re: cats with heart murmurs in rescue centres...

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 08 Apr 2014 17:16:44 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Before doing radiographs I would do a basic haematology and FeLV/FIV test. These cats are highly unlikely to be vaccinated and may be unneutered on admission, so the risks of both diseases are higher than normal. Add on probable malnutrition, and anaemic murmurs are likely. If a young FeLV/FIV neg cat, then once decently fed the prognosis is good.

Wynne

[/quote]I would like to think that was all done as a routine regardless of heart murmurs. But I have to say that given the rate of incidence of heart murmurs in cats and the number which are caused by anaemia due to disease even in rescue situations (the majority of cats I see in rescue centres are lost cared-for cats or being re-homed not semi-feral retrovirus positive malnourished parasite ridden strays) I wouldn't have thought that it was a pre-requisite to investigating the murmur, just good practice.

Re: cats with heart murmurs in rescue centres...

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 08 Apr 2014 17:00:00 GMT

Wynne

Re: cats with heart murmurs in rescue centres...

Matt Hilary — Tue, 08 Apr 2014 16:52:22 GMT

Hi Kerry

[quote]

Is this something others have issues with?

[/quote]

Yes - frequently.

[quote]

Would you recommend thoracic radiographs of these cats (bearing in mind the tight budget the centres have).

[/quote]

Not sure you'd get sufficient information to justify the potential cost (i.e. diagnosis + prognosis) so not in most cases.

[quote]

And what advice would you give to prospective owners wanting to rehome these cats?

[/quote]

Similar to the CP document above - unknown aetiology, unknown prognosis.

Obviously all depends - if low-grade murmurs and asymptomatic the prognosis differs from an older cat with an arrhythmia.

The problem I have is having detected a low-grade murmur is being asked to diagnose or 'certify' a cat so a potential owner can be reassured.

I suspect cats with murmurs often end up sitting on the shelf as most owners would take the lower-risk option instead.

Re: cats with heart murmurs in rescue centres...

Rob Loxley — Tue, 08 Apr 2014 16:24:07 GMT

the CP guidelines are here: http://www.cats.org.uk/uploads/documents/Info_for_Vets/Investigation_of_heart_murmurs_v1.pdf

Re: cats with heart murmurs in rescue centres...

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 08 Apr 2014 10:47:05 GMT

I would perform NT-proBNP on them. I think the present cost to us is £35 but Idexx may do a deal if you ask. You just need 0.5ml EDTA blood so easy from most cats but be sure to follow the sample preparation protocol if you're going to do it. You can be pretty confident then whether they are likely to develop heart failure or not and/or then whether it is worth doing further investigation. Also RVC were doing echo at a reduced rate for the CP they may do the same for other charities again no harm in asking.

Notwithstanding this I believe that stats suggest one in three cats with murmurs will progress to heart failure so it might be sensible to tell the new owners this.