CertAVP (ZooMed) vs GPCert (ExAP)

Re: CertAVP (ZooMed) vs GPCert (ExAP)

Frances Barr — Thu, 01 May 2014 13:31:03 GMT

Holders of the BSAVA PGCerts will, we hope, be able to apply to be on the RCVS Advanced Practitioner list without also completing an A module. The professional key skills in the A module are also embedded in the BSAVA PGCerts, and are developed throughout the programme. We have to prove that to the RCVS, so a formal application (mapping these skills between the BSAVA PGCerts and the RCVS CertAVP A module) has been submitted for formal consideration by the RCVS.

I'm happy to give more details to anyone who PMs me - and will update forum users as soon as I can.

Re: CertAVP (ZooMed) vs GPCert (ExAP)

Marie Kubiak — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 17:51:48 GMT

Hi,

I did the CertAVP through the RVC (A and B) and Edinburgh (C and synoptic) the first year it was available. I understand the A and C requirements are slightly different now though (less A essays and one more C module I believe) so my views may not be exactly the same as current candidates. I found the A module very tough as so much of the material was completely irrelevant to my work as I do no admin/practice management, and the expected self-flagellation and emotional drivel was not what i would expect from a veterinary science qualification. However, once that was over and done with the later modules were more practical and were more what I had expected. It is very expensive to do, not only the fees themselves, but also the cost of travel etc for exams soon mounts up but as you say it is paid over several months to years depending on your chosen speed of progression.

The GPCert is well-taught from what I have seen and heard and gives a good broad knowledge base and doesn't require as much self-driven learning as the structure, lectures and notes make it a lot simpler to work through alongside full time work. However, it is expensive and I am unsure if they will allow spreading of course fees over a longer period of time. Also it would appear from the preliminary discussions that it would not be considered for automatic 'Advanced practitioner status' by the RCVS whereas the CertAVP(ZM) would.

If you are looking to do a qualification to expand your knowledge then the GPCert may be better but if doing it for recognition of your competence then the CertAVP may be more appropriate.

Marie

Re: CertAVP (ZooMed) vs GPCert (ExAP)

karen jones — Wed, 16 Apr 2014 21:51:47 GMT

I'm doing improve SAM certificate mainly for the knowledge I will gain . I've paid to do the exam in 2015 but I'm doing it more for myself and becoming up to date with some areas that have moved on in the thirty years since I qualified as opposed to being bothered by whether the qualification is recognised by RCVS. My time is limited and I have my interests outside the vet world so I had no interest in doing the A module . I know some of you say that they gained a lot from it but they don't inspire my interest.

Re: CertAVP (ZooMed) vs GPCert (ExAP)

Harriet Nicholson — Wed, 16 Apr 2014 18:43:09 GMT

The RCVS got back to me today, they basically don't know for now, they need to assess if they are going to accept the PGCert and this could take a while so I think I'll just have to sit it out and cross my fingers.

But they did get back to me so thats good :)

Re: CertAVP (ZooMed) vs GPCert (ExAP)

Sarah Keir — Mon, 14 Apr 2014 09:32:04 GMT

It is not really that quick. I have been waiting for about 4 years to find out what they were going to do when the old style certificates went. In the end I went for the BSAVA PGCert which is hard work but I am enjoying. But now I find out I will probably have to do the A module which was the main reason for me NOT to do the certAVP!

Sarah

Re: CertAVP (ZooMed) vs GPCert (ExAP)

Harriet Nicholson — Thu, 10 Apr 2014 11:56:50 GMT

Thanks Michael, that is amazingly quick! I called the RCVS today and they are going to get back to me about the GPCert and if it would be recognised for this, I will let you know.

Re: CertAVP (ZooMed) vs GPCert (ExAP)

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 14:41:57 GMT

[quote user="Harriet Nicholson"]Does anybody know when the advanced practitioner thing is going to be sorted? My experience so far with the RCVS is slow![/quote]

It's sorted now. You can download the information pack now.

Applications open in September and close in November.

http://www.rcvs.org.uk/education/postgraduate-education-for-veterinary-surgeons/advanced-practitioners/

For candidates who haven't done the equivalent of the A module of the CertAVP (old RCVS cert holders and those with other qualifications) they will have to sit the A module within 3 years.

I'd say they have been quite efficient on this.

Re: CertAVP (ZooMed) vs GPCert (ExAP)

Harriet Nicholson — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 08:54:22 GMT

Thank you all for your replies, its much appreciated.

I too have been leaning more towards the CertAVP as it is recognised by the RCVS, I wish they could make up their minds about what will/won't be recognised as advanced practitioner. My concern is definitely the lack of teaching as I would likely need to do further CPD and my budget will only stretch so far. I'm glad it appears people are managing in mainly small animal practice with reasonable exotics case load.

Does anybody know when the advanced practitioner thing is going to be sorted? My experience so far with the RCVS is slow!

Thanks again everyone,

Harriet

Re: CertAVP (ZooMed) vs GPCert (ExAP)

Gareth C. — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 01:17:44 GMT

The espvs certs are recognized by the rcvs but they won't list the postnomial letters as they have to be recognized by ofqal (or similar) . Some espvs certs can be progressed on to an MSc, but not sure which ones. I did the ophthalmology one which was excellent but can't comment on the exotics one. It will be interesting t

o see how this advanced practitioner thing develops.

Re: CertAVP (ZooMed) vs GPCert (ExAP)

CatherineThomas — Tue, 01 Apr 2014 19:10:37 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

What I also meant to say was my barrier with the A module was being an employee when I started. I'd done nothing about health and safety, appraisals etc. Think you can pick from a pool and avoid such essays if you now want to.

[/quote]

Me too, when I first started there was a list of 10 essays and you had to do all of them. There were some which I had no experience of. So I wasn't really motivated to start on them. But then they started a new version of the A module with lists of essay titles and you only had to choose 5 from the lists. Once I changed to the new module I found I was much more motivated to actually start working on them.

Re: CertAVP (ZooMed) vs GPCert (ExAP)

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 01 Apr 2014 19:05:42 GMT

Re: CertAVP (ZooMed) vs GPCert (ExAP)

CatherineThomas — Tue, 01 Apr 2014 18:58:17 GMT

I'm doing the certAVP (ZooMed). I've done the A and B module and hoping to do the C modules at the end of the year. I've done them all with Edinburgh and I've found them straightforward and easy to fit in because you can do the work as and when you want. I know some friends are doing A modules at Liverpool which is more structured and they have found it difficult to fit in around working full time.

The A module seems a bit daunting at first because of the boring topics covered but when you get into them they aren't that bad, and now there is more choice on essays titles than there used to be.

I was concerned that my cases for the B module wouldn't be complicated enough, The basic cases where I used more words explaining my reasoning behind investigations and treatments more were the ones which I got better comments on. And as it turned out I got a distinction over all for them. And it really didn't take that much time to write them all, there's only five cases and one reflective essay.

At first I thought that the case logs for the C modules might be difficult to complete but for small mammals and reptiles it actually didn't take me long to get fifty cases, it's only the birds that I haven't completed so far. I've done most of that in a normal small animal practice where I had about 20% case load of exotics.

I choose the certAVP becuase it is more recognisable, not only to the RCVS but also I think to some clients. When you look on some of the exotic pet forums there are people on there who know about the CertAVP and look specifically for vets who have it, and advise others to do the same.

Re: CertAVP (ZooMed) vs GPCert (ExAP)

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 01 Apr 2014 18:49:09 GMT

[quote user="Harriet Nicholson"]How have you found the CertAVP process overall, I am concerned that the amount of hours will be difficult to fit in alongside full time practice? I realise yours is a different discipline but the A module is the same and I would assume the module basics would be similar.[/quote]

They quote 100 hours 'nominal' study time per module. It's realistically not that much. It depends on your personal pace of work and ability to get quiet time. One weekend I managed to thrash out first drafts of 7/10 A modules essays having done some reading, printing out articles etc. I found it handy making a few notes as I went along.I know they have changed the A module down to 6 essays and 10 credits rather than the old 15.

I did look at some of the other C modules and different certs use different methods of assessment. The cow modules are a case of pick a case that fits the syllabus, pull some research together and produce a case report X3. We have some research papers to critique and a learning diary to write etc.

I'd say if confident in the subject you could knock out the best part of a module in a weekend or two.

By the time I am done I will have written somewhere around 30,000 words!

Re: CertAVP (ZooMed) vs GPCert (ExAP)

Mark Naguib — Tue, 01 Apr 2014 18:37:39 GMT

Hi Harriet,

There are advantages and disadvantages to both. I found the CertAVP manageable in practice - it's main disadvantage is that you get no teaching so it will depend a bit on your situation and caseload.

The RCVS currently don't recognise the GPCert but things may be changing with the introduction of the "Advanced Practitioner" status - another discussion in itself! (There is currently a big void for anyone looking to progress beyond a Cert in Exotics/Zoo Medicine due to the fact there are now almost no opportunities to obtain a Diploma.)

PM me if you're after more details,

Mark

Re: CertAVP (ZooMed) vs GPCert (ExAP)

Christopher Saul — Tue, 01 Apr 2014 18:30:33 GMT

As far as I was aware the only certificate level qualifications recognised by the RCVS were:

'old' certificates e.g CertZooMed, CertSAM

CertAVP

PGCert (BSAVA)

MANZCVSc (Australian/NZ membership examinations)

I might be wrong of course but I don't think GPCerts are recognised.

Had you looked into the Australian/NZ option? They have exams in the UK for some subjects...

Chris

Re: CertAVP (ZooMed) vs GPCert (ExAP)

Harriet Nicholson — Tue, 01 Apr 2014 16:41:35 GMT

Thanks for your reply Michael, hopefully I will be able to contact Marie when she is not so pre-occupied :)

I don't think the RCVS recognise the GPCert from improve international (although I may be wrong), I can see they recognise the BSAVA SAM/SAS but cannot see any others they recognise.

How have you found the CertAVP process overall, I am concerned that the amount of hours will be difficult to fit in alongside full time practice? I realise yours is a different discipline but the A module is the same and I would assume the module basics would be similar.

Thanks, Harriet

Re: CertAVP (ZooMed) vs GPCert (ExAP)

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 01 Apr 2014 14:38:43 GMT

Marie on here has the CertAVP in zoomed. IIRC she's in the process of giving birth so may be pre-occupied currently.

If you go on RCVS 'find a vet' you can search by qualification - there are 11 people with the CertAVP.

I'm doing my CertAVP in cattle currently and enjoying the process, if that helps in any way. Does RCVS recognise the GP Certs?