Neck threadworms in the UK?

Re: Neck threadworms in the UK?

Dalriata — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 22:30:35 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Old-fashioned louse powder (from the saddler) works for lice - and I'm still racking my brains to think of a legal justification for using dectomax when there's plenty of oral licensed ivermectins available.

As for a horse owner injecting iv - it's legal for farmers (and their workers ) to do so on their own animals, as there's an exemption to the VSA covering farmers and their workers performing minor acts of veterinary surgery which don't involve entering a body cavity.

Other than for that, it's legally an act of veterinary surgery to give an iv injection,and therefore a serious criminal offence.

Wynne

[/quote]

Old fashioned lice powder certainly doesn't work for Cornish or Scottish lice in my experience, they must be hardy b*ggers! Obviously dectomax is used under the cascade where these products have failed rather than first line. Oral ivermectins don't have the same indication in this case.

Yes the iv injection was a very stupid and illegal act on the owner's part, but it isn't a mistake they are about to repeat and we aren't in the habit of prosecuting our clients without some very careful thought. Horse owners are a tricky one because I'm not sure if they would be exempt as "farmers/stock owners/workers", especially if it is a horse on a farm.

I'm a bit terrified by all these equine drug reaction stories. Glad that most of them got better on their own!

Re: Neck threadworms in the UK?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 09:26:22 GMT

Other than for that, it's legally an act of veterinary surgery to give an iv injection,and therefore a serious criminal offence.

Wynne

Re: Neck threadworms in the UK?

Wren — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 09:07:57 GMT

I use 1ml/33kg IM, however was talking about this with my colleague the other day and he uses the same dose subcut, which I might give a go as it's a horrid thick injection to give. Michael if you're using it IV you're a braver vet than me!

With regards to speed of reactions I have had a horse go down whilst injecting alpha2 IV - fat cob with a neck like a bull and I'm fairly sure it had ended up intra-arterial. I have also had a horse (my own) go down whilst injecting IM penicillin. No sign of blood in hub of needle on drawback. We got her up again after about 10mins and I gave her high dose steroids but she developed severe neuro signs that night and I had to euthanase her.

Re: Neck threadworms in the UK?

mariette asselbergs — Sun, 09 Mar 2014 18:43:01 GMT

"That sounds very fast for any kind of reaction - I must admit I haven't (thankfully) seen many dramatic horse drug reactions but the only time I've seen one go down like that is when an owner(!!) tried to inject cronyxin iv(!!!!) and managed to get it into the carotid artery."

As a young vet I visited a friend who was a real equine vet, and it happened to her. Horse went straight down in a fit, but survived!

Mariette

Re: Neck threadworms in the UK?

Christina Smith — Sun, 09 Mar 2014 14:42:56 GMT

Sounds as if there may be a mdr 1 gene mutation in horses too. Has anyone checked?

Re: Neck threadworms in the UK?

Dalriata — Sun, 09 Mar 2014 13:02:51 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="Miriam Geraghty"]Do you know what dose your colleague was using and if it was deep im or subcut?[/quote]

I've only ever used it and seen it used IV in horses.

[/quote]

Eek! I would be scared to use it iv. What does everyone else do? We have always done IM (as per Dick vet lecturers) - I use about 9ml for a 300kg pony.

Re: Neck threadworms in the UK?

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 09 Mar 2014 12:50:15 GMT

[quote user="Miriam Geraghty"]Do you know what dose your colleague was using and if it was deep im or subcut?[/quote]

I've only ever used it and seen it used IV in horses.

Re: Neck threadworms in the UK?

Dalriata — Sun, 09 Mar 2014 11:50:14 GMT

Wow that is really weird! We have used Dectomax injections in my own ponies for years and frequently in clients horses (with signed permission) - never with any problems. In fact it is the only thing I've known to effectively kill lice, which is why we use it.

That sounds very fast for any kind of reaction - I must admit I haven't (thankfully) seen many dramatic horse drug reactions but the only time I've seen one go down like that is when an owner(!!) tried to inject cronyxin iv(!!!!) and managed to get it into the carotid artery.

Do you know what dose your colleague was using and if it was deep im or subcut?

Re: Neck threadworms in the UK?

Dalriata — Sun, 09 Mar 2014 11:46:54 GMT

Thanks Alex - really helpful. I think we will try and be ahead of the curve on this one and start mentioning it to owners! Hopefully the number of calls to you from worried owners that don't believe their vets might reduce a bit.

Re: Neck threadworms in the UK?

Wren — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 09:17:09 GMT

Really interesting thanks Alex. I suspect that not many years ago I'd have put it down to a drug reaction too.

Re: Neck threadworms in the UK?

Alex Allen — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 09:01:15 GMT

Definitely in UK. We (Virbac Tech Team) get calls every year on Onchocerciasis - usually the enquiry relates to horses developing urticaria 1-3 days post worming and in some cases oozing serosanguinous liquid from the lumps. This is the classic reaction caused by the ivermectin killing the microfiliariae migrating through the skin.

We had a good example a couple of years ago in Yorkshire where the vet even managed to expressed some microfiliariae onto a microscope slide to prove it is was Onchocerciasis. I believe historically this urticarial reaction was often described as an allergic reaction to ivermectin rather than a reaction to dying parasites caused by the ivermectin use.

Adult worms are usually naturally terminated but in older horses the reaction in the nuchal ligament can become calcified. Life cycle is approx 4-5mths.

As stated above the usual avermectin oral wormers are effective at killing the microfiliariae and culicoides control helps prevent the infestation initially.

Re: Neck threadworms in the UK?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 09:00:06 GMT

I'd heard rumours that cattle/sheep injectable anthelmintics could be fatal in horses. No personalexperience, because I'd never use it - why when there's a licensed oralprepavailable?

Wynne

Re: Neck threadworms in the UK?

Wren — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 08:58:47 GMT

That's the first I've heard of any problems Groovejet. Very interesting! And slightly scary. I've used it for about the last 10 years and have never personally had a problem. The consensus amongst equine vets at CPD etc. is that it's as safe in horss as cattle, it's just that proving it to get it licensed would never be financially viable. I generally get a consent form signed though.

Re: Neck threadworms in the UK?

Miriam Lodewyks — Thu, 06 Mar 2014 19:26:49 GMT

FYI: a colleague was asked to inject a whole yard of horses with Dectomax (I don't recall why). When he reached no. 8, he heard an almighty bang as no. 3 went down - rigid! And whilst he was tending to that horse, no.5 and 7 also went down. They all survived, but scared the bejesus out of vet and yard-manager alike. I've never dared use it....

Re: Neck threadworms in the UK?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 06 Mar 2014 16:19:59 GMT

Being spread by culicoides, there's no logical reason why we shouldn't have it. Equine medicine, surgery and reproduction ( Mair et al ) says treat with ivermectin and systemic corticosteroids. Tim, if you're reading this, I'm scared stiff of using systemic corticosteroids, most of my patients (Sec A types ) don't need an excuse to get laminitis.

Wynne

Re: Neck threadworms in the UK?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 06 Mar 2014 16:12:14 GMT

I'm asking a genuine question. How safe is Dectomax in horses? Also why not use ivermectin?

Wynne

Re: Neck threadworms in the UK?

No Name — Thu, 06 Mar 2014 11:03:06 GMT

We have learnt about onchocerca a few months ago. Just dug up my lecture notes which say:

"O. cervicalis (= O. reticulata) – horse: ligamentum nuchae and ligaments and tendons of lower leg. Widespread globally, including UK. Vector: Culicoides spp. Microfilariae may cause puritic dermatitis and have been implicated in ocular disease."

A quick google search has yielded a 2012 abstract showing it does exist in the UK atleast in the SW

"Small numbers of larvae of O.cervicalis were only found in October and not during the rest of the winter"
From "The prevalence of helminths with tissue associated stages in horses in the south-west of England" by G.C. Coles et al

And if I recall correctly then MLs are effective so an injection of dectomax may indeed help if this is the cause but it looks like sweet itch is probably more common...

Re: Neck threadworms in the UK?

Wren — Thu, 06 Mar 2014 09:13:48 GMT

I absolutely agree with you - first time I saw them proferred on a horse forum as an explanation for an itchy neck I had to look them up! Common in the US but a lot of googling couldn't provide anything more than conjecture about their presence here. I assume them mean Onchocerca cervicalis?

The waters are a little bit muddied as if I ever did have a suspect case I would treat it with Dectomax inj, which I find does work for some cases of sweetitch anyway. Or are all the 'sweetitches' it cures undiagnosed Onchocerca?

The common line on the forums is 'vets know nothing about this' which, for once, I can agree with! Might be worth asking on EVG?