Campylobacter in adult dogs

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

Glenn Hodgson — Tue, 06 Jan 2015 10:53:31 GMT

Fair chance. Care regarding re infection.

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

Tom Ward — Tue, 06 Jan 2015 08:45:41 GMT

I have seen a 9mo lab with haemorrhagic d+ that cultured +ve with heavy growth of campylobacter spp. Started erythromycin 10d, recultured, and found sparse growth (dog now clinically well). 21d course of erythromycin, and still sparse growth seen, dog still clinically well. Advised O no indication that there is any reason to treat further, as he is likely a carrier.

Dog now presents this morning ~1month after finishing meds, with haemorrhagic diarrhoea. Is it related!? Who knows??

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 12:34:51 GMT

Exactly Glenn. It depends where you are.

Here there's a cycle of infection. Humans..........sewers............sea "water"..............seagulls..................dogs......................humans.

If I'm allowed to pour ready-mix down every loo from Shrewsbury downstream, I'll stop routinely giving eruthromycin to dogs that are pos for campylo.

Wynne

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

Glenn Hodgson — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 20:31:48 GMT

We seem to get loads of symptomatic campy here. Find myself using erythromycin on a doggy every 2-3 months. Never used a quinolone to treat.

In 6 years working in a different location only found the need to treat once!

Always the same strain in the ones needing treatment. C.upsernalis..? Must be a bad un.

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

Glenn Hodgson — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 20:31:46 GMT

We seem to get loads of symptomatic campy here. Find myself using erythromycin on a doggy every 2-3 months. Never used a quinolone to treat.

In 6 years working in a different location only found the need to treat once!

Always the same strain in the ones needing treatment. C.upsernalis..? Must be a bad un.

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

Nicola Cole — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 20:22:12 GMT

Not really related to the original post but on a antibiotic theme-do many people use antibiotics routinely for kennel cough?

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 15:42:37 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]I'd love to know how many clinics still do this too... I'd fear the majority that do wouldn't own up in a survey though.[/quote]

The SPVS fee survey asked this in the last couple of years and it was a 50:50 split between those that do and don't.

I've said this very recently - we were taught in lectures at college not to use antibiotics routinely, but in the clinics everything got IV Zinacef in the hospitals. Gives a rather mixed message.

I understand a similar approach is used in human hospitals where short use abs are used to cover the time of surgery. A single shot of amoxycillin might not have been that bad after all..

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

Christina Smith — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 15:35:31 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"] The vast majority of Campylobacter cases are from beef and chicken, undercooked or cross-contaminated, [/quote]Cross contaminated with campylobacter from where and what?

What goes around comes around methinks

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

James Laidlaw — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 12:30:23 GMT

[quote user="Nicola Lawlor"]

It would be an interesting and yet probably also very scary survey to find out how many vets in practice give antibiotics after a routine neutering.

To the original poster - If the dog is well then please don't treat with antibiotics, there is NO good reason to do this.

[/quote]

Nic, I've now got the experience and time in multiple jobs enough to happily walk into a clinic and refuse to give routine ops antibiotics. In every case, it has resulted in no problems. I'd love to know how many clinics still do this too... I'd fear the majority that do wouldn't own up in a survey though.

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

Derek Lyon — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 12:07:54 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]

[quote user="Derek Lyon"]at past episodes of v/d MAY HAVE been due to ingestion of foreign bodies including on one occasion a condom which he gulped down before I could get it out of his mouth[/quote]

Blimey - I'd just keep the little begger out of your bedroom.

[/quote]

Nowt to do with me! He picked said item up in a field when on a walk!!

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

bob lehner — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 11:29:34 GMT

Blimey - I'd just keep the little begger out of your bedroom.

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

Derek Lyon — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 10:39:07 GMT

Once more many thanks for ALL your comments and advice. I will NOT use the antiobiotics at all unless I am sure in my own mind he needs it. As a Fox Terrier he picks up and eats anything! The evening prior to his last acute episode he ate sheep poo.....now there's another thread to discuss perhaps? At the present time he is OK with normal faeces and good appetite. I am sure that past episodes of v/d MAY HAVE been due to ingestion of foreign bodies including on one occasion a condom which he gulped down before I could get it out of his mouth. It came out in his faeces 36 hours later! He also eats rubber bands which we believe are dropped by the local postman. That is my next beef to contact Post Office and suggest Postmen do not drop them but return them to sorting room! I may well submit another faeces sample to see if Camplo is still present.

Have a nice weekend

Derek

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

Nicola Lawlor — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 09:39:54 GMT

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

David Mills — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 09:23:07 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]In all seriousness though (I'm feeling mischievous lately so apologies) - "our dog is now OK". Yet they are deciding with veterinary input (so one ex vet and one current vet) to give an "OK" dog antibiotics. What purpose does that serve? Incidentally I'm sorry you had campylobacter and hope you're recovered now.

[/quote]

It's a gross misuse of antibiotics, especially the fluoroquinolones. It lacks any clinical reasoning whatsoever. Like saying 'I cultured some bacteria off my dog's skin - but I'm going to treat anyway, because I can. The dog's fine by the way'. By way of logic we've had 'I had Campylobacter once' (from the same poster who likened the pharmcology of horse and dogs?!) and 'lots of dogs get it in a Wales seaside town'. Beggars belief really in an intelligent profession.

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

didn't take campylobacter seriously, then you would soon be sued by a very ill owner.

[/quote]

Cause and effect anyone? If upto 90% of dogs carry it anyway, how do you know? Add to this that no-one really knows which species are pathogenic in dogs (and cats), and several studies have failed to find induce diarrhoea by feeding the various species, how do you know? Add to this most internal medicine speciliasts don't even bother culturing anymore, how do you know? You don't, and to tell owners, categorically, that you do is an abuse of your Aesculpian authority. The vast majority of Campylobacter cases are from beef and chicken, undercooked or cross-contaminated, all the infos out there.

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

James Laidlaw — Sat, 01 Mar 2014 19:51:51 GMT

In all seriousness though (I'm feeling mischievous lately so apologies) - "our dog is now OK". Yet they are deciding with veterinary input (so one ex vet and one current vet) to give an "OK" dog antibiotics. What purpose does that serve? Incidentally I'm sorry you had campylobacter and hope you're recovered now.

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

James Laidlaw — Sat, 01 Mar 2014 19:27:16 GMT

Little aggressive tonight?

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 01 Mar 2014 18:28:57 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]It's situations like this that make me think that they will eventually decouple prescribing and dispensing antibiotics within the UK.

[/quote]

And how will that make a shit of difference? I would merrily write a prescription for the erythromycin........

Are you saying that campy isn't a cause of diarrhoea? It made me quite ill............

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

James Laidlaw — Sat, 01 Mar 2014 18:23:50 GMT

It's situations like this that make me think that they will eventually decouple prescribing and dispensing antibiotics within the UK.

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

Derek Lyon — Sat, 01 Mar 2014 17:33:17 GMT

Hello everyone

Sincere thank for all input. Our dog is now OK but after talking with our Vet we will use Erythromycin and Baytril if side effects with Erythtomycin. May do a snap test for Giardia was well. Again many thanks

Derek

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 23:21:38 GMT

I would treat the campylobacter if we had diarrhoea. I appreciate it can be there in many normal dogs but I don't culture their faeces. I wouldn't advise routine surveillance. I'm not going to ignore a potential enteric pathogen in a symptomatic animal.

(our puppy had mucoid faeces, positive for campy, treated with erythromycin and they went back to normal)

If the OP's dog is not currently symptomatic then I wouldn't treat.

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 22:20:40 GMT

By "it" I mean Campylobacter. If you were in practice where I am, and didn't take campylobacter seriously, then you would soon be sued by a very ill owner.

Wynne

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 22:01:53 GMT

David Just try reading a post PROPERLY before commenting.

I didn't write that Campylobacter caused vomiting. I wrote that 10 mg/kg tid erythromycin could.

Whether it's the cause of disease is another matter. If you're in a seaside town, then yes it does.

Wynne

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

Rob Loxley — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 21:34:43 GMT

[quote user="karen jones"]giardia[/quote]

I find that faecal microscopy alone misses a fair few that ELISA picks up

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

David Mills — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 18:59:54 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Derek Use erthromycin high dose (10 mg/kg tid ) for 5 days If that causes vomiting,you can use neomycin at the same dosage rate. Re-swab 10 days after treatment.[/quote]

I wouldn't recommend this.

As Mr A said. Campy is isolated from around up to 90% of normal dogs. There is no evidence it causes disease in dogs. If it did, vomiting would be a rare clinical sign.

There is a ACVIM consensus statement (if you like those sorts of things - a good source of references if nothing else) on enteropathogenic bacteria of dogs and cats, freely available, here:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1939-1676.2011.00821.x/full

At risk of dumbing down, faecal culture is generally useless as there is a massive overlap between normal and enteritic animals.

Re: Campylobacter in adult dogs

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 18:03:56 GMT

Derek Use erthromycin high dose (10 mg/kg tid ) for 5 days If that causes vomiting,you can use neomycin at the same dosage rate. Re-swab 10 days after treatment. I see a lot -Swansea is a seaside town, and most dogs think of seagull poo as caviare.

Wynne