Glucosamine and diabetes mellitus??

Re: Glucosamine and diabetes mellitus??

Virginia Campbell — Thu, 19 Dec 2013 18:06:29 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]overweight,[/quote]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]he asked what was the chance of glucosamine causing/exacerbating diabetes[/quote]

The correct answer was, of course, "Rather lower than the chance of obesity causing/exacerbating diabetes I believe, Mr Smartarse. Tell me, is there any interesting new research in rats linking obesity to inflammatory conditions such as arthritis?" Preferably said with a big grin whilst wobbling the cat's belly pouch from side to side :-)

Re: Glucosamine and diabetes mellitus??

Rory Bell — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 22:56:51 GMT

Hi Hanna

Odd coincidence, species difference? I would not have thought that withdrawal of glucosamine would have such a dramatic effect though so I'd suspect that what happened in your patient was independent of glucosamine. The alteration of 2iu of insulin in a 25kg dog should not usually make the difference between intractable hypoglycemia and glycemic stability, so perhaps additional factors were at play causing a variable and marked variation in insulin responsiveness. Waxing and waning subclinical pancreatitis or occult infections (UTI), for example? Sorry I cannot give a more definitive answer and I remain (speculatively and doubtfully) open to the possibility that glucosamine was the villian.

cheers

rory

Re: Glucosamine and diabetes mellitus??

Hanna Bennett — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 19:08:48 GMT

interesting - I have a diabetic dog who we upped dose a smidge after a recent fructosamine was quite high. at same time the owner said the dog was on glucosamine and did that have an effect. I said I was not aware of any, but the client opted to stop the glucosamine anyway. increased the insulin from 12 to 13iu in 25kg dog. a week later the dog came in with the most awful hypoglycaemia I've ever seen, fitting and it took hours before we could get her glucose up and keep it there. after a period off insulin she is now back at 11iu and seems stable. odd coincidence maybe?

Re: Glucosamine and diabetes mellitus??

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:02:41 GMT

Thanks for that Rory. I will tell my rather annoying client but I suspect this is what he already knew.

Re: Glucosamine and diabetes mellitus??

Rory Bell — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 14:54:24 GMT

HI Martin

Visited pubmed and found this meta-analysis; data perhaps not great by human standards (but fantastic by veterinary standards!) but there does not seem to be a strong association at all, so chances are that you, Blackie and your patient will all be fine!

Diabetes Metab Res Rev. 2011 Jan;27(1):14-27. doi: 10.1002/dmrr.1150. Epub 2010 Dec 7.

A comprehensive review of oral glucosamine use and effects on glucose metabolism in normal and diabetic individuals.

Simon RR, Marks V, Leeds AR, Anderson JW.

Author information

Abstract

Glucosamine (GlcN) is a widely utilized dietary supplement that is used to promote joint health. Reports that oral GlcN supplementation at usual doses adversely affects glucose metabolism in subjects with impaired glucose tolerance have raised concerns that GlcN should be contraindicated in individuals with diabetes and those at risk for developing it. This review addresses its potential, when used at typical doses, to affect glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity in healthy individuals and those with diabetes or 'pre-diabetes'. Publicly available scientific information and data on GlcN were systematically compiled using the electronic search tool, Dialog , and reviewed with special emphasis on human studies. In long-term clinical trials, including those containing subjects with type 2 diabetes or 'pre-diabetes', GlcN produced a non-significant lowering of fasting blood glucose concentrations in all groups of subjects treated for periods of up to 3 years. Owing to limitations in study design, conclusions based on studies that report adverse affects of GlcN on insulin sensitivity and glucose tolerance in pre-diabetic subjects are suspect. However, no definitive long-term studies of GlcN use for individuals with pre-diabetes are available. Nevertheless, based on available evidence, we conclude that GlcN has no effect on fasting blood glucose levels, glucose metabolism, or insulin sensitivity at any oral dose level in healthy subjects, individuals withdiabetes, or those with impaired glucose tolerance

Re: Glucosamine and diabetes mellitus??

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:55:44 GMT

Synoquin works well in my arthritic cat and in myself. This is clearly anecdotal and open to placebo effect but I have no doubt that when I take Glucosamine + Chondrotin and Omega 3s my knees are better and when I stop they are worse, start again and they get better ad infinitum. Ditto my cat's arthritic elbows and Synoquin EFA is better than anything else I've tried (yes I take Synoquin large dog)! I would love to be able to say it doesn't work and not have to worry about whether I should flog it or not and there are equally many cases I've tried it on with little apparent success but my limited personal experiences, where I am aware of the compliance are positive, - what more can I tell you.

Now whether Blackie and I are heading for diabetes is another matter!

Re: Glucosamine and diabetes mellitus??

David Mills — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:51:25 GMT

Why not try this:

1. take the cat of glucosamine.

2. A week later, lay your hands on the cat's head and say a healing prayer, a Buddist health chant, or sprinkle Confuscian anti-arthritis water over its hind limbs.

3. Check blood glucose.

I think the glucose level in 3) will be the same. The evidence for efficacy of any of 2) is the same as for glucosamine so it's an equivalence trial. 1) will mean you have to see less a client who dares question your judgement.

Re: Glucosamine and diabetes mellitus??

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:31:50 GMT

The easy option is not to sell them the glucosamine with zero evidence of any efficacy...........

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