can you 'get' DM due to skin surgery????

Re: can you 'get' DM due to skin surgery????

Stephen Courtney — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 21:50:41 GMT

A glucagonoma could mimic DM, at least initially.

I also once had a diabetic Westie that developed an insulinoma. Or rather, developed metastatic APUDoma that happened to secrete an insulin-like product. That was very entertaining in a hair pulling and ultimately sad way. A stable diabetic became unstable, became free of insulin, then started having hypoglycaemic events without insulin....

Re: can you 'get' DM due to skin surgery????

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 20:25:56 GMT

Martin - I'm not completely daft, I know the skin tumours weren't related to the DM! I was more thinking of the stress of the surgery or drugs precipitating the onset of DM. Maybe I didn't phrase the question very well but do credit me with a modicum of intelligence! I think Simon knew exactly what I was getting at, fortunately. Both owners have asked me the same question - could the surgery have caused the DM.....and after saying 'definitely no' to the second owner I started to wonder......

Both dogs are long term patients with us, but simply at different practices. (We have 2.) Neither dog had received any 'treatment' at all for the lumps pre-op, both removed from the flank. One looks like a lipoma, the other a sebaceous cyst. Both are sat in pots of formalin but cost is an issue so we really don't think there is any reason to send them at the mo.

Re: can you 'get' DM due to skin surgery????

Simon Tappin — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 18:52:45 GMT

I agree - it would be useful to know what the lumps are but, only from the point of view of their management and not in relation to the development of DM. It would be extremely unusual for pancreatic neoplasia to cause DM by destruction of the pancreas (admittedly they may be the cause of insulin resistance), it would also be very unusual for pancreatic neoplasia to primarily metastasise to the skin...

Re: can you 'get' DM due to skin surgery????

Bob Russell — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 15:42:46 GMT

Have you checked with the previous practices if they stored the lumps? We store pretty much everything if owners are not keen on paying for path. Came in useful a couple of weeks ago. I removed what I feared was a nasty mammary tumour. All went well but had a very upset owner and PTS booked because another mass had developed. This seemed far too quick for a malignancy so rather than euthanase I sent the lump for path. Benign and new mass went down with Galastop.

I suspect coincidence but it would be good to know what the masses were!

Re: can you 'get' DM due to skin surgery????

Anthony Todd — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 15:37:50 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]it is more likely to be with the corticosteroids someone gave the dogs for a skin condition before they decided to the correct thing and investigate![/quote]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I await brickbats from the forum steroid kings[/quote]

LOL, yeah, and you're the Emperor of steroidophobia......

Re: can you 'get' DM due to skin surgery????

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 15:31:07 GMT

I'm surprised that someone with your experience would have even considered this a possibility Gillian - and that is not meant in a critical way.

I guess if the tumours are secondaries from a pancreatic tumour that has destroyed the Islets then anything is possible. But if there is any connection at all, as the title suggests there is a skin involvement here, although you didn't confirm it in your post, it is more likely to be with the corticosteroids someone gave the dogs for a skin condition before they decided to do the correct thing and investigate!

(Sorry to re-ignite the steroids side effects debate and I await brickbats from the forum steroid kings).

Re: can you 'get' DM due to skin surgery????

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 12:51:11 GMT

Many thanks for the reassurance. I couldn't think of any sensible reason, apart from pure coincidence, but it seemed so odd to have 2 such similar cases!!

Will await my 3rd diagnosis of DM........

Re: can you 'get' DM due to skin surgery????

Simon Tappin — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 12:19:36 GMT

No - I don't think so. Most dogs will develop diabetes slowly with a concurrent disease (e.g. pancreatitis or HAC) or a triggering events (e.g. oestrus or stress) which leads to insulin antagonism, being the final trigger to the development of overt diabetes. The 'stress' of hospitalisation and GA, is likely to have been the precipitating event rather than the drugs or the procedure its self.

I'd watch out for the rest of the week though - these things usually happen in 3's!