Cerenia in or out of fridge

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

Neil Wheadon — Wed, 13 Nov 2013 12:43:10 GMT

Better still

Inject 1/2 in cold and the other 1/2 warm

Neil

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

Anthony Dennison — Wed, 13 Nov 2013 10:48:34 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Put ours in the fridge. We now have 2 open bottles.

[/quote]

Keep one in, one out. Use each bottle alternatively, and note the difference in reactions. Should get a good idea of what works better!

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 12 Nov 2013 22:49:22 GMT

Put ours in the fridge. We now have 2 open bottles.

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

mariette asselbergs — Tue, 12 Nov 2013 22:13:14 GMT

I work in practices that do, and practices that don't keep it in the fridge and I have a feeling that the variation in reaction between dog individuals is so great that you would really need industrial numbers to get a statistically trustworthy result. Also the state the dog is in has an influence on how it reacts, sometimes they seem to feel so miserable that they no longer care. I also always warn the owners that this jab is very good but very nasty, at least then they are not shocked by the cruelty of the vet.....

Mariette

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

Thomas Johnson — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 10:09:20 GMT

[quote user="Braden Collins"]

My experience is that depth of injection is the critical factor. A deep subcut inj doesn't hurt compared to a superficial injection. a very strong and repeatable finding in my experience.

[/quote]

Possibly because the nerve endings are more superfficial?

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

Braden Collins — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 05:05:11 GMT

My experience is that depth of injection is the critical factor. A deep subcut inj doesn't hurt compared to a superficial injection. a very strong and repeatable finding in my experience.

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

Anthony Dennison — Sun, 10 Nov 2013 14:41:46 GMT

Definitely in the fridge. I find it gives less of a reaction

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

Glen McIntosh — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 13:47:12 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

The original study on this is here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20037963

(It's available free with registration from VetLearn)

However the numbers are small - in the clinically relevant bits, 9/17 showed pain reaction when injected at 22deg, and 1/17 when injected at 4deg. Chilling appears not to affect efficacy. This was in an experimental line of dogs so behaviour and dog stoicness were somewhat controlled so even though it's Pfizer funded (and performed) I think it's a decent one.

With the evidence available, I'm with the fridge camp.

[/quote]

There was an abstract presented at the IVECCS conference in 2011 that had a similar sample size that showed that 60% of dogs reacted painfully to room temp maropitant and 57% reacted painfully to refrigerated maropitant. There was no significant statistical difference in this study. (Marquez et al).

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

Thomas Johnson — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 10:28:21 GMT

Going off at a slight tangent, everywhere I've worked the Cartrophen has been kept in the fridge, but the data sheet says it should be stored below 25 degrees C, the same as all the other injectables we keep at room temperature.

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

Suzanne Kelly — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 23:40:44 GMT

I see far less reaction since we've put it in the fridge.

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

Hanna Bennett — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 20:26:42 GMT

we keep ours in the fridge - personally i'm +1 for the intradermal injection - I find if they start to react and you redirect the needle they often settle for the rest of the injection.

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

CatherineThomas — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 17:14:35 GMT

When I've worked in practices where the cerenia is kept in the fridge I've definitely noticed less reaction to the injection. There's still sometimes a mild reaction but it's nowhere near as bad as the one's kept on the shelf. Cat's are the worst for injecting room temp cerenia, when it's kept in the fridge the worst that they seem to do is have a bit of a hiss.

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

Charlotte Marshall — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 15:22:54 GMT

We started putting it in the fridge a few months ago and I do think I have had less react. I don't think I have had any of the extreme screaming the place down reactions either but that may just be coincidence as that was only occasionally before.

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

Thomas Johnson — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 15:12:46 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

Certainly intra-nasal kennel cough vaccines seem to bother dogs less if allowed to warm first.

[/quote]

I generally draw up the kennel cough vaccine and hold it in my hand for a while to warm it before putting it up the dogs nose.

Going back to the original subject we've been keeping the Cerenia in the fridge for the past few months on the advice of the rep, I'm not convinced that fewer dogs have reacted to it since then.

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

David Mills — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 14:01:28 GMT

Yes, interestingly, 2 / 6 dogs showed pain reaction to cold 4deg saline in the Cerenia study.

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]PS just realised its been opened 28 days so its going in the pharm. waste![/quote]

Yeah, right - think of the cost!

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 13:36:38 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]With the evidence available, I'm with the fridge camp.[/quote] Cerenia has just gone in the fridge (where the nurses will probably forget it is and order another one)!

PS just realised its been opened 28 days so its going in the pharm. waste!

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

Francisco Gomez — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 13:34:58 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

I suspect its a toss-up as to whether having a blob of ice cold fluid under your skin hurts less that the product itself. I'm fairly convinced that animals object to vaccines because they're cold not because they sting. Certainly intra-nasal kennel cough vaccines seem to bother dogs less if allowed to warm first.

[/quote]

I agree with you in that one. I always warn the owners before I use the product, whether refrigerated or not...

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

David Mills — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 13:32:00 GMT

The original study on this is here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20037963

(It's available free with registration from VetLearn)

With the evidence available, I'm with the fridge camp.

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 13:27:40 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

In the section: 'Contraindications, warnings, etc.', it says: '... Injecting the product at refrigerated temperatures may reduce pain at injection...' from the NOAH compendium at least...

[/quote]OK sorry, this is about refrigeration to reduce pain not storage requirement, I got the wrong end of the stick. I might try mine in the fridge in future though I suspect its a toss-up as to whether having a blob of ice cold fluid under your skin hurts less that the product itself. I'm fairly convinced that animals object to vaccines because they're cold not because they sting. Certainly intra-nasal kennel cough vaccines seem to bother dogs less if allowed to warm first.

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

Kate Richardson — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 13:26:46 GMT

We do keep ours in the fridge now and I would say that we get less stinging on injection than when out of the fridge but this is only a subjective opinion. Maybe we should document it. But I personally think the stinging (and with other products such as Synulox) that stinging is related to accidental intradermal injection, even if only a tiny amount.

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

Francisco Gomez — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 13:20:23 GMT

In the section: 'Contraindications, warnings, etc.', it says: '... Injecting the product at refrigerated temperatures may reduce pain at injection...' from the NOAH compendium at least...

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 13:15:18 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]They, in their own datasheet, say that refrigeration is recommended. [/quote] Hmmm....out of interest I just looked at the insert in the box and it says there are no special storage requirements, just discard 28 days after opening.. Mine stays on the shelf at room temperature and it still stings.

Re: Cerenia in or out of fridge

Francisco Gomez — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 12:59:28 GMT

I think that's a question for a poll!

Anyway: http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Pfizer_Limited/Cerenia_10_mg_ml_Solution_for_Injection_for_dogs_and_cats/-43633.html

They, in their own datasheet, say that refrigeration is recommended. One could argue: You didn't take the necessary steps to avoid the dog's pain reaction to the injection...

Not sure what the DC would think about this one...