Nutritional value of raw bones?

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Niall Taylor — Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:52:05 GMT

[quote user="Roger Meacock"]The more abrasive nature of the faeces as it passes through is a less hospitable environment to worms too...[/quote]

I suppose a reference for this claim would be too much to ask for?

Niall

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:11:45 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

Where do you obtain those raw meaty bones? What is the actual source?

[/quote]

It's not gonna happen, is it?

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Lucy Fleming — Tue, 12 Nov 2013 12:42:53 GMT

Interestingly, the much touted dental benefits may not be much more than cosmetic. An Australian study of feral cats compared to domestic cats found a difference in calculus scores, but no significant difference in the incidence of periodontal disease. Only a small study, but something to think about, especially if owners feeding meaty bones are under the impression their pets teeth are lovely and clean! "Although the mean calculus scores were significantly different between feral and domestic cats, the prevalence of periodontal disease was not. The presence of alveolar bone loss, missing canine teeth, osteomyelitis and thickened alveolar bone establishes that feral cats suffer from periodontal disease, despite eating an abrasive diet. There was no association found between the type of diet consumed and the prevalence of periodontal disease in the 49 cats studied, but there was an association found between the type of diet eaten and calculus formation. This study suggests that the texture of the diet of feral cats does not prevent them from acquiring dental calculus, does not protect them against periodontal disease and that commercially available canned and dry foods have not been the sole cause, nor increased the prevalence of periodontal disease in the domestic cat." http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1751-0813.1998.tb12284.x/abstract

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Thomas Johnson — Tue, 12 Nov 2013 12:06:51 GMT

[quote user="Roger Meacock"]

The more abrasive nature of the faeces as it passes through is a less hospitable environment to worms too. I hope that helps answer your question.

[/quote]

Aren't most intestinal parasites in the small intestine where the contents will be pretty liquid whatever the dog is fed? The fluid then being absorbed in the large intestine to produce the dry faeces.

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 12 Nov 2013 10:46:43 GMT

[quote user="Roger Meacock"]The more abrasive nature of the faeces as it passes through is a less hospitable environment to worms too.[/quote] This presumably means that wild carnivores don't have internal parasites then Roger! Amazing what you learn on here isn't it?

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Bob Russell — Tue, 12 Nov 2013 10:06:07 GMT

Now! Not difficult to have a sensible discussion is it?

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 12 Nov 2013 00:21:22 GMT

[quote user="Roger Meacock"]

[quote user="Evekovacs"]What do dogs actually benefit from bones by eating them?[/quote]

The biggest benefit is the mechanical aspect that cleans teeth and helps work gums and keep them healthy. Of course there are some minerals absorbed from the bone as well as the cartilage - cheaper than buying supplements containing cartilage extracts! As somebody has already posted, the emphasis is on raw MEATY bones rather than raw meaty BONES which risks blockage. A good proportion of the bone is dissolved and excreted hence why raw fed faeces goes white and crumbles to dust. Of course the protein matrix in bone will be digested as any protein ... The more abrasive nature of the faeces as it passes through is a less hospitable environment to worms too. I hope that helps answer your question.

Roger

[/quote] Where do you obtain those raw meaty bones? What is the actual source?

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Roger Meacock — Tue, 12 Nov 2013 00:18:38 GMT

[quote user="Evekovacs"]What do dogs actually benefit from bones by eating them?[/quote]

Roger

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Evekovacs — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 08:47:49 GMT

Thanks Niall :)

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Mark Hedberg — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 23:14:47 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]

Thanks Niall, I'll do my best to survive.

[/quote]

No worries, Niall, he survived working with me so I'm confident he's very resilient! :)

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Dinu Catilina — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 22:24:51 GMT

Thanks Niall, I'll do my best to survive.

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Niall Taylor — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 22:05:46 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]Most breeders I know use minced chicken carcasses, chicken necks, chicken wings some mixed with tripe, and their dogs are doing very well. [/quote]

Welcome to the forum Dinu. I hope you've fastened your seat-belt

Cheers,

Niall

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Niall Taylor — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 22:03:06 GMT

[quote user="Evekovacs"] I'd been trying to search for articles, or any kind of datas about digestibility and nutrition of raw bones,but couldn't find any reliable source. What do dogs actually benefit from bones by eating them? BARF "experts" or everyone who is feeding their dogs raw bones too, claims that they are good source of calcium (and phosphorus). But will the dogs get that much of calcium of the bones?[/quote]

There are quite a few claims out there about raw feeding - both RMB and BARF, and the RMB proponents hate BARF proponents even more than they hate the "crap in a bag" brigade. All very confusing and very little of it unbiased or impartial, least of all from the proponents of raw feeding themselves.

There are some good articles and links here though: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/. Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Niall

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Dinu Catilina — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 10:43:15 GMT

Most breeders I know use minced chicken carcasses, chicken necks, chicken wings some mixed with tripe, and their dogs are doing very well.

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 28 Oct 2013 09:04:05 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]'High opinion of your post' is not the same as 'high opinion of you[/quote]

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Francisco Gomez — Sat, 26 Oct 2013 11:25:16 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

So you mean you didn't have a high opinion of me previously? Shame on you Francisco

[/quote]

'High opinion of your post' is not the same as 'high opinion of you'.

I'm very sorry Martin. It wasn't you I was referring to. Made a terrible mistake yesterday when I was on my second pint at the local pub

I even edited the post. I bit late for that I guess...

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Martin Atkinson — Sat, 26 Oct 2013 11:11:25 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]That's been the funniest post u'd ever written. It had changed m opinion of your posts[/quote] So you mean you didn't have a high opinion of me previously? Shame on you Francisco. I try to tell it as it is, truth hurts sometimes and some people don't like it. I have 38 years in practice and a high opinion of myself but even most other people (grudgingly sometimes) admit that I'm usually right. However, beware of:

Devil's Advocate

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Francisco Gomez — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 17:28:12 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

G'day to ya all cobbers. You shouldn't be so cynical about the RMB diet, strewth you know its the only way to feed them poor pooches and if you all continue poisoning them with all that premium commercial crap that has been scientifically formulated and evaluated to show it gives the perfect balanced diet they're all gonna die. Get real you pommies.

Tom

[/quote] That's been the funniest post u'd ever written. Well done and Thank you

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Bob Russell — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 15:00:22 GMT

There was me thinking you just chucked a horses head out into the garden and let them eat!

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Marie Kubiak — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 14:36:07 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

If they consume much bone substance, surely yes?

[/quote]

But how much bone are they actually consuming? Most people feeding their dogs RMB seem to use large hunks of meat on large bones and the dog eats almost exclusively muscle (Ca:P ~ 1:20). They don't seem keen to do what we do with the zoo carnivores and just chuck a whole rabbit in (Ca:P 1.5:1) and let them make a mess...

Marie

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 14:28:37 GMT

[quote user="Evekovacs"]

But will the dogs get that much of calcium of the bones?

[/quote]

If they consume much bone substance, surely yes?

In the days when I dealt with breeders and they all wanted a "calcium supplement" (and needed it, too, when they were feeding pups on steak and the like – only good quality, you know) we used lots of bone meal.

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 14:25:30 GMT

Tom

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Mark Holmes — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 13:25:04 GMT

[quote user="Evekovacs"]

I hope it's not gonna end up in the "naughty corner". I'm only curious about educated opinions, and don't intend to create arguments. :)

[/quote] You clear ARE new to Vetsurgeon.

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Evekovacs — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 13:15:55 GMT

I hope it's not gonna end up in the "naughty corner". I'm only curious about educated opinions, and don't intend to create arguments. :)

Re: Nutritional value of raw bones?

Bob Russell — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 12:56:52 GMT

Many of us would welcome independent studies and perhaps would be more open for conversion to this form of feeding if it were available and the 'loony fringe' were less hellbent on destroying sensible discussion.

Don't be overly worried if this thread ends up in the naughty corner of the forum! Scroll down the forum main page to the controversial section if you dare!!