anyone else missing their ACP?

Re: anyone else missing their ACP?

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 23 Oct 2013 13:37:18 GMT

In answer to the op, don't miss it at all. Animals are a lot more sedated, great if you have a really fractious cat; it's reversible, and you use less propofol.

Re: anyone else missing their ACP?

Anthony Dennison — Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:14:58 GMT

We've just found a full bottle at the back of a cupboard.

Re: anyone else missing their ACP?

Francisco Gomez — Wed, 23 Oct 2013 10:18:13 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]

It's pretty interesting and is what I have experienced - that higher heart rate being associated with (consequence of?) lower Bp, is no longer so attractive is it?

[/quote]

I guess that makes sense. A couple of possibly interesting articles (study and this months 'in practice') that may have some relevance...

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.2005.226.738?prevSearch=allfield%253A%2528results%2Bdogs%2Belectrocardiography%2529&searchHistoryKey=

http://inpractice.bmj.com/content/35/9/524.abstract

Re: anyone else missing their ACP?

Mark Rowland — Wed, 23 Oct 2013 00:56:49 GMT

That long? It hardly seems a minute...

Re: anyone else missing their ACP?

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 23 Oct 2013 00:44:04 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]

Ive missed you Michael

[/quote]

Thanks. I've been in Scotland for a week........

Re: anyone else missing their ACP?

Mark Holmes — Wed, 23 Oct 2013 00:33:43 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

Thank you. Ill discuss with the practice... You ever had to use atipam or atropine intra op? I used methadone with premed and inducing with propoflo...

Btw, I found this, in case anyone's interested:

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.237.12.1431

[/quote] It's pretty interesting and is what I have experienced - that higher heart rate being associated with (consequence of?) lower Bp, is no longer so attractive is it?

Re: anyone else missing their ACP?

Mark Rowland — Wed, 23 Oct 2013 00:28:15 GMT

Ive missed you Michael

Re: anyone else missing their ACP?

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 23 Oct 2013 00:20:04 GMT

You know what I mean.

Re: anyone else missing their ACP?

Mark Rowland — Wed, 23 Oct 2013 00:14:08 GMT

panted!! what with tongues out and everything???

I tend to spey them whilst they are asleep.

Re: anyone else missing their ACP?

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 23:01:08 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]What about that annoying/progressive bradycardia during ga, even at doses al low as 5ug/kg (with medetomidine)?

[/quote]

TBH I always put that down to the increased sedation and analgesia and so the dog is experiencing less pain.

Even with NSAID on board ACP/butorphanol almost all bitches panted when I pulled on ovaries. Maybe 1 in 10 does with medetomidine in the pre-med, maybe less. Everything else exactly the same.

Such smooth anaesthetics.

Re: anyone else missing their ACP?

Hanna Bennett — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 19:47:18 GMT

atropine is contra-indicated for bradycardia caused by medetomidine - antisedan and turn off your gas instead - tho would agree that if you've got good digital pulses in an otherwise fit dog I don't worry until below 40 (30 is a little low for me!)

and we've ordered calmivet thru henry schein (we use both acp and medtomidine for premeds, like each for different reasons)

Re: anyone else missing their ACP?

Rob Loxley — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 13:49:38 GMT

We ordered a bottle of Calmivet, pretty straightforward through Henry Schein.

Re: anyone else missing their ACP?

Mark Holmes — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 12:30:34 GMT

To be honest I have stopped using Atropine in the face of bradycardia, as it can cause a paradoxical bradycardia itself before inducing tachycardia. The worst ga "near miss" I have witnessed - incidentally premed with ACP - was when Atropine was given and the bradycardia got substantially worse after atropine. To be fair the atropine may have had nothing to do with it, cannot make assumptions based on n=1 but a slow yet ok heart practically stopped. Hence I now go for adrenaline. I generally don't worry unless its around 30 providing pulse volume is fine. Big difference between slow thready pulse and good strong one.

Re: anyone else missing their ACP?

Mark Hedberg — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 08:48:45 GMT

Nope, don't miss it.

Re: anyone else missing their ACP?

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 07:28:02 GMT

Thank you. Ill discuss with the practice... You ever had to use atipam or atropine intra op? I used methadone with premed and inducing with propoflo...

Btw, I found this, in case anyone's interested:

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.237.12.1431

Re: anyone else missing their ACP?

Mark Holmes — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 07:25:13 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]What about that annoying/progressive bradycardia during ga, even at doses al low as 5ug/kg (with medetomidine)?

[/quote] It's never killed anything! Seriously it's slow but steady as a rock. (I tell my nurses it's so they can count heart beats without taking their socks off) There is all that peripheral blood returned centrally, the stroke volume is going to increased. In short I have never lost sleep over it.

Re: anyone else missing their ACP?

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 06:59:23 GMT

What about that annoying/progressive bradycardia during ga, even at doses al low as 5ug/kg (with medetomidine)?

Re: anyone else missing their ACP?

Mark Holmes — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 06:26:07 GMT

Haven 't used ACP in years - medetomidine!