three day old puppies dying with bleeding

Re: three day old puppies dying with bleeding

Matt Hilary — Sat, 12 Oct 2013 18:23:45 GMT

Neonatal isoerythrolysis? Though never heard of in dogs before, and doesn't quite fit with lack of feeding from dam.

Re: three day old puppies dying with bleeding

John Flynn — Sat, 12 Oct 2013 17:45:37 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]Owner unfortunately doesn't want them sent off for PM. Any suggestions?[/quote]

If freshly dead, then perhaps an alternative sample might be acceptable to the owner while still offering the chance of some valuable info. I'd be thinking of differentiating inflammatory disease (eg septicaemia) from a congenital clotting problem (which this doesn't sound so much like to me at first reading) and wonder if a single drop of blood to smear might even help to that end?

Re: three day old puppies dying with bleeding

mariette asselbergs — Sat, 12 Oct 2013 17:19:34 GMT

Thanks all. To make clear: owners are not the don't care lot, rather care too much and wanted the puppies burried not cut up.

With the first puppy we thought of a fulminating pneumonia, but with the second it looked like a clotting disorder. There are 2 pups left who were born normally and they are ok until now. As it turned out another two puppies were born together in one placenta |(according to owner), dead and deformed. (We didn't see them). This was before the caesarean.

So yes, we need to have a closer look at the relationship between the parents.

Reason for dubious colostrum uptake, especially for the caesarean delivered puppies was the anxious state of the bitch who didn't want to accept them or tolerate them suckling. We did try here as did Owner at home, but risk for the puppies seemed too great. Now it also reminded me of the calves with haemorrhagic diathesis after the cows were vaccinated with one of the BVD vaccines. What may be coincidental is that the puppies were fed with the bitch about 12 hours before (Owner is still trying to get them safely together and the bitch is friendly interested, but very nervous with the pups).

Thanks MIchael, I agree that that is a good way to try a bloodtransfusion, but unfortunately things deteriorated very fast and they brought the pups without the mother. If a third one starts bleeding this is exactly what we will try, as well as trying to collect any blood for sending off at least for clotting factors.

Mariette

Re: three day old puppies dying with bleeding

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 12 Oct 2013 13:51:17 GMT

Have you checked clotting?

Access to rodentacides?

Unsure if it's been used in dogs but in lambs I've drawn blood from an adult into anticoagulant and given it IP. The red cells are absorbed intact unsure about clotting factors etc. Relatively quick and cheap to do, much easier than transfusions in puppies.

Re: three day old puppies dying with bleeding

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 12 Oct 2013 10:22:34 GMT

Sheer guesswork, but not that common a breed-so are the parents closely related? I'm thinking of some hereditary haemophilia

Wynne

Re: three day old puppies dying with bleeding

Martin Atkinson — Sat, 12 Oct 2013 09:42:02 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]Any suggestions?[/quote] Yes - don't worry about it, if the owner doesn't care why should you?! Unless you used something not licenced for use in the procedure and the breeder finds out, is particularly vindictive and sues you even though it wasn't significant (yes there was a case like this in the VDS files recently).

More helpfully: apart from some weird congenital clotting disorder, the fact they've not had mums milk (question why not?) maybe poor immunity = susceptibility to any any manner of infections, possibly resulting in septicaemia would be my best guess.