sick ferret jill

Re: sick ferret jill

Virginia Campbell — Tue, 10 Sep 2013 18:47:48 GMT

further update - got back yesterday from a week's holiday to be told the jill died last week - so 2 weeks after I saw it, and 1mo after suprelorin. Rang the Os who said that she had been doing well, eating, playful etc then died suddenly (don't know if they actually saw it happen, was was def looking OK that day according to them).

So I suspect thrombocytopenia related death...but..

They have another jill who had a litter of 10. Presented last week, 3 of the (kits?pups?babies anyway) having died. Vet noted remaining 7 to be very thin, explained that at 7 weeks they should be nearly weaned and adv offer soft food which O had not been doing. As of yesterday per phonecall one kit looks to be fading, won't accept syringe feeding and looks like going to die; others doing well. Dam and the 2 hob ferrets they have are OK according to o.

So my thoughts are

1. jill 1 died of a bleed and the kits of jill 2 died due to poor husbandry (+/- being a poor inbred litter - forgot to ask if the sire is dam's sibling)

or 2. the pancytopenic jill and the undernourished kits succumbed to infectious disease.

If 2, what infection? Not distemper vaxed but no outbreaks here in Northern Ireland that I know of, and no outside contact with wildlife - not working ferrets. O concerned about contact with her cat. We have had some cases of panleucopenia in cats here for the past couple of years. Can cats give ferrets this virus? Any exciting ferret bacteria I should be aware of? Os have very little money so will prob all be of academic interest and I am not inclined to spend hundreds of their non existent pounds hospitalising dying kits, but I said I'd ask in case there is anything they can do beyond syringe feeding kits that won't eat.

Thanks all

Re: sick ferret jill

mariette asselbergs — Fri, 23 Aug 2013 21:25:17 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

Sort of arising from this – who is still using Delvosteron, in dogs, cats ferrets or anything? Do you really throw it away after first broaching? (Reply anonymously if you wish ). If so, how on earth do you make it financially acceptable to owners?

[/quote]

Me, I use it in ferrets (owner pays for her own bottle and brings her ferrets to be injected, use bottle until empty, never seen a problem).

And use it in my own bitch, I don't like neutered animals, (as my own) and might at some point want to breed her, but don't want the mess of seasons. Delvosteron works fine for her, and since she is with me I am not concerned about possible pyo, which was rare anyway at the time when we used it in industrial quantities (the 80s).

Mariette

Re: sick ferret jill

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 20 Aug 2013 19:27:18 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Or, with ferrets, they "know someone who does it for a tenner"..........................[/quote]

I suspect that involves a leather gauntlet and a very bristly paintbrush!!!

Re: sick ferret jill

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 20 Aug 2013 19:24:34 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]If so, how on earth do you make it financially acceptable to owners?[/quote]

It isn't financially acceptable, hence why we use it so rarely. The owner has to pay for the whole bottle, regardless of amount used. Spaying suddenly seems a more attractive option....

[/quote]

My experience exactly.

Or, with ferrets, they "know someone who does it for a tenner"..........................

I'm quite surprised it's still on the market.

Re: sick ferret jill

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 20 Aug 2013 17:09:22 GMT

And I can be quite bad at counting to 28................

Re: sick ferret jill

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 20 Aug 2013 17:08:01 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Sort of arising from this – who is still using Delvosteron, in dogs, cats ferrets or anything? Do you really throw it away after first broaching?[/quote]

We haven't used it since the data sheet change. Have offered a couple of times to sell whole bottle but just not viable. Sold a few more Ovarid tablets.

Don't really miss it.

Re: sick ferret jill

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 20 Aug 2013 16:50:21 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]who is still using Delvosteron, in dogs, cats ferrets or anything? [/quote]

Very rarely

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Do you really throw it away after first broaching? [/quote]

Yes

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]If so, how on earth do you make it financially acceptable to owners?[/quote]

It isn't financially acceptable, hence why we use it so rarely. The owner has to pay for the whole bottle, regardless of amount used. Spaying suddenly seems a more attractive option....

Re: sick ferret jill

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 20 Aug 2013 16:17:08 GMT

Re: sick ferret jill

Virginia Campbell — Tue, 20 Aug 2013 13:11:25 GMT

Hi all,

Thanks so much for your replies. O rang with update yesterday - ferret improving, eating well and passing N faeces and seems brighter. I told him to keep her on the synulox drops, which should last nearly a month - reckon it would take her bone marrow this long to produce enough white cells to keep herself safe from infection. He also knows that she could suffer a fatal bleed due to thrombocytopenia so not out of the woods yet. I din't give the delvo in the end - didn't know if you could give it on top of the suprelorin and got too busy to ring virbac to ask on Thursday. Decided against chorulon too on the grounds that the suprelorin should be working by now. Did manual "mating" with a cotton bud on Wednesday and Thursday. looked a bit mucky so suspect metritis 2ndry to immune suppression.

Marriette - thanks for the reminder about insulinoma. I will definitely bear this in mind for future flat ferrets. What's the youngest you've seen them develop an insulinoma?

Wynne - thanks for the reminder about pancytopenia, my vague memory was just anaemia - didn't realise the suppression of the other cell lines was as important but apparently they die 2ndry to thrombocytopenia or infection more commonly than due to anaemia

Mark - don't know if off licence form signed as other vet off on hols, but not written on record. We've all been a bit slack about this lately. Virbac were nice by the way and not backing off, though I agree I wish they would just license it then they could put all the info in the compendium and we could grab that off the shelf rather than trying to come up with something coherent for the Os when they ring in the middle of a busy week. I see that Delvosterone actually has a license for heat suppression in ferrets so I suppose should be using this under the cascade rather than suprelorin. Does it have SEs in ferrets that make suprelorin preferable?

Michael, though I didn't take you up on the chorulon offer, thanks very much. One more reason to like vetsurgeon.org and it's users.

Ginny

Re: sick ferret jill

mariette asselbergs — Sat, 17 Aug 2013 23:17:14 GMT

Please look at blood sugar. Insulinomas are very common in ferrets and are the other cause for flat ferrets.

Mariette

Re: sick ferret jill

Mark Rowland — Wed, 14 Aug 2013 23:01:56 GMT

I hope the ferret improves.

Trouble you have here is that you have used a non licensed product off cascade and the drug company are now backing away from you. It would be nice if Virbac got this licensed so they could put out proper guidelines on the data sheet.

Did you get an off licence form signed? This may help cover yourself if things go south.

Goodluck

Re: sick ferret jill

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 14 Aug 2013 22:08:36 GMT

Fire me off a PM tomorrow if you want any. Can get it in the post first class.

Re: sick ferret jill

Virginia Campbell — Wed, 14 Aug 2013 21:33:40 GMT

tried a mixed prac which is where I got the delvo, but no joy on the chorulon. will see if she's still alive tomorrow then might take up your offer :-)

Re: sick ferret jill

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 14 Aug 2013 20:39:26 GMT

No farm practices nearby?

If you need chorulon (and don't want the box of 5) I can send you one in the post.

Re: sick ferret jill

Virginia Campbell — Wed, 14 Aug 2013 19:56:15 GMT

Thanks all, couldn't hit the jugular to save myself (do they all have thick tomcat skin??) but got enough out of cephalic with a 25G needle and a bit of patience to run a haematology. PCV of 20 so not as bad as I feared, still pretty anaemic though. White cell results all hashed but low, this borne out by blood smear. I gave her Synulox and she ate a little a/d - the nurses are syringing a bit more into her.

Virbac rep called back very promptly and also v helpful and knowledgeable. She said they don't recommend suprelorin if the jill has been in season longer than 2 weeks. Better using Chorulon which I could do now, but will need to order in. None of the vet practices locally had any handy though I did cadge half a ml of Delvo. Although by the time it works, the Suprelorin would probably be working anyway.

Re: sick ferret jill

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 14 Aug 2013 14:21:00 GMT

Sounds like you need to start with bloods and iv fluids (cephalic) and then go from there. If you struggle with the CVC/jugular sample then a capillary tube for a manual PCV may give you an idea if bone marrow suppression is the underlying cause of the problem.

Re: sick ferret jill

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:45:31 GMT

Ferret blood will be fine in your in house machine.

It's birds and reptiles that confuse haematology machines with their nucleated red cells. You can run biochemistry from anything.

Re: sick ferret jill

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 14 Aug 2013 12:53:46 GMT

Virginia Looks as though you were posting as I was typing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wynne

Re: sick ferret jill

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 14 Aug 2013 12:52:40 GMT

I'm inclined to think the treatment was too late-as opposed to side effect of treatment.

Give covering antibiotic as well white cell series also suppressed.

Poor prognosis, as ferrets who look unwell are really unwell.

Good luck.

Wynne

Re: sick ferret jill

Virginia Campbell — Wed, 14 Aug 2013 12:51:50 GMT

looks like jugular is my best bet. Book says they get pancytopenia due to bone marrow suppression with persistent oestrus, not just anaemia. If I put ferret blood in my IDEXX haematology machine, would it read OK? Would like to know results today rather than sending off.