Purple guts!

Re: Purple guts!

Charlotte Marshall — Tue, 20 Aug 2013 23:23:24 GMT

I did check for twist but could not see one.

Re: Purple guts!

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 20 Aug 2013 19:37:34 GMT

I have inadvertently caused a temporarily purple small intestine when doing a sweep and having the guts draped over the outside too long......

Re: Purple guts!

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 20 Aug 2013 19:35:08 GMT

Don't know how I missed this thread...

I would have thought that if all mm and uterus were a normal pink colour and yet the small intestine seemed purple when you made your incision, then there was probably a local circulatory issue rather than a general one. Maybe there was some kind of pressure/twist that affected the mesentery when the dog was initially put on her back????

Odd one.

Re: Purple guts!

Charlotte Marshall — Sun, 18 Aug 2013 21:41:38 GMT

Not yet I was thinking maybe I should. I had thought i would just put a quick post on here to see if anyone else had seen it. I should have known it would end up as a discussion on premed protocols

Re: Purple guts!

Busybee — Sun, 18 Aug 2013 19:20:42 GMT

[quote user="Charlotte Marshall"]

Good news is that there seems to be no lasting problem from the op as dog was fine on poc.

[/quote]

Did you speak to the drug manufacturer as they may have reports from other vets if this has been encountered before.

Re: Purple guts!

Charlotte Marshall — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 23:06:37 GMT

Good news is that there seems to be no lasting problem from the op as dog was fine on poc.

Re: Purple guts!

Hanna Bennett — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 20:50:51 GMT

we use either dom or acp, often dependant on how bouncy/nervous the dog is - but use buprenorphine or methadone with it - don't find a drop in sedation cf butorphanol. we can tell when something gets torb by accident (miscommunication) - they are completely different to our normal ops. our dogs breathe fine under ga - but don''t need a lot of isoflo so that helps. we admit from 8am and op from 9am - the op vet doesn't consult first but still time for the premed to work. my issue with butorphanol is it is priven to be poor analgesic and only lasts an hour. again I guess we know what is familiar but having had been through surgery with poor pain relief I worry that bit more I think.

Re: Purple guts!

Charlotte Marshall — Wed, 14 Aug 2013 22:58:35 GMT

We are using the 0.1ml /10kg of each dom/torb as per chart and certainly I am often surprised how sleepy they do go with this premed as with this dog but the horrible colour of it's guts makes me wonder if that happens when we sedate them at usual i/vor i/m doses for stitch ups etc or whether this was just a one off. This was an otherwise perfectly healthy animal with no signs of ill health prior to surgery and as I said colour went to normal after giving the antisedan so I assume the domitor was the cause.

(And actually I prefer to use acp/buprenorphine premed myself, but not my decision in routine speys/castrates)

Re: Purple guts!

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 14 Aug 2013 22:16:51 GMT

[quote user="Hanna Bennett"]abdominal surgery isn't painful? [/quote]

Never said that.

NSAID and medtomidine and butorphanol pre med. Reduces wind up. Don't forget as long as you don't reverse the alpha two they provide good analgesia. Ever seen the relief in a horse from visceral pain giving IV xylazine? Have used it a couple of times where flunixin won't touch the pain and need to transport for Sx.

Bitch spsys go out wagging their tails very bouncy.

The other thing with alpha twos in a pre-med is the much more stable anaesthetic. 9/10 dogs do not react when you pull on ovaries. In the ACP/torb days practically every singe one did.

I also put breathing before analgesia - I want straightforward anaesthetics. Not ones where the animals need bagging to maintain ETCO2 at acceptable levels.

I don't have 45 mins to let buprenorphine work - need to get ops done first thing, and a spay would always be done first. I suppose in a lot of small animal practices the pre-med can have an hour to work during consults.

I am very satisfied with our protocols. The patients very comfortable.

Re: Purple guts!

Hanna Bennett — Wed, 14 Aug 2013 22:03:29 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

We give 0.1ml/10kg medetomidine/butorphanol. Bigger dogs don't need as much so tend to stop at 0.5ml. Young, bouncy dogs less than 10kg get a little more.

Tried buprenorphine but they don't sedate anywhere near as well. Also takes too long to have an effect for my liking.

Tried methadone but had a few dogs with profound apnea so went back to D&T. Was giving bottom end of data sheet dose - which may be too much. Mixing with the Domitor.

In more painful ops (mainly ortho) will give methadone IM as stitching up and seems to give good analgesia and a nice recovery.

I only make a little hole so wouldn't expect to see gut in a routine spay.

[/quote]

abdominal surgery isn't painful?

Re: Purple guts!

Christina Smith — Tue, 13 Aug 2013 22:48:09 GMT

Parvo virus ??????!

Re: Purple guts!

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 13 Aug 2013 22:25:17 GMT

We give 0.1ml/10kg medetomidine/butorphanol. Bigger dogs don't need as much so tend to stop at 0.5ml. Young, bouncy dogs less than 10kg get a little more.

Tried buprenorphine but they don't sedate anywhere near as well. Also takes too long to have an effect for my liking.

Tried methadone but had a few dogs with profound apnea so went back to D&T. Was giving bottom end of data sheet dose - which may be too much. Mixing with the Domitor.

In more painful ops (mainly ortho) will give methadone IM as stitching up and seems to give good analgesia and a nice recovery.

I only make a little hole so wouldn't expect to see gut in a routine spay.

Re: Purple guts!

Charlotte Marshall — Tue, 13 Aug 2013 21:01:39 GMT

We are actually using the dose that is on the chart for i/m dosing. I have to admit effects can be a bit variable. some seem to go more sleepy than you would expect and others it does not seem to touch!

Re: Purple guts!

Andrew Kent — Tue, 13 Aug 2013 20:35:28 GMT

What dose of medetomidine are you using? ( and I agree about not using butorphanol)

Re: Purple guts!

Rob Loxley — Tue, 13 Aug 2013 20:21:36 GMT

Not something I've noticed. I would however give the medetom i/m as it's much more reliable (IME) and you can use lower doses.
By the by, for surgery I'd swap the butorphanol for buprenorphine or methadone.