Recurrent cat flu

Re: Recurrent cat flu

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 26 Jul 2013 17:05:48 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]the cases of cat flu and parvo we see all have little/no money, hence the dam and offspring weren't vaccinated, and they are often presented at a late stage.[/quote] A vial of 10mega units Virbagen Omega at ~1mu per kitten is usually enough to treat a small litter over 3 days this will cost you approx £20 per kitten before VAT and a markup compare that to the cost of traditional treatment over a lifetime.

Re: Recurrent cat flu

Rob Loxley — Fri, 26 Jul 2013 16:24:04 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]The real key to success is treating kittens at the very first signs of cat flu with interferon[/quote]

Sadly our experience is much like that with treating parvo with interferon - the cases of cat flu and parvo we see all have little/no money, hence the dam and offspring weren't vaccinated, and they are often presented at a late stage.

Re: Recurrent cat flu

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 26 Jul 2013 14:44:43 GMT

The real key to success is treating kittens at the very first signs of cat flu with interferon, the symptoms are stopped dead in their tracks with recovery in 3 days with no other supportive treatment plus a good chance that they will not go into carrier status but I don't have enough follow-up to back the latter up. Of course by the time they are chronic it is too late for this and Lysine may be as useful but don't forget Lysine AFAIA is not active against FCV as it is an RNA virus.

Re: Recurrent cat flu

james herriot lied — Wed, 24 Jul 2013 14:10:15 GMT

+1 for lysine: it has a sufficiently complex mechanism against FHV that I can't actually understand it - so it must be true.

Had some really decent results with it, although all obviously anecdotal (we don't do enough swabbing to be able to objectify outcomes properly). The one time I tried a control - two cats in the same house with similar symptoms, one to be treated and one not - the owner phoned up within a week and said that the treated cat was so much better that she was going to put the other one onto it. All very powerful and emotive, but my own observations have been that it is a reasonable tool.

Again completely anecdotally, I think giving it almost blind to young cats with flu-like symptoms is both reasonable and sometimes effective in reducing long term recrudescence (by long term, only talking a year or so).

If the alternative is euthanasia, HAS to be worth a punt.

Re: Recurrent cat flu

Jo Cobbett — Wed, 24 Jul 2013 13:11:31 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

How many cases have you treated Jo [/quote]

We've got about half a dozen cats on it.

[quote]

and how confident are you that you can discount placebo effect?

[/quote]

Not at all! But it doesn't seem to doing them any harm, and the owners are happy to use it.

Re: Recurrent cat flu

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 24 Jul 2013 11:04:01 GMT

[quote user="Jo Jones"]

What are people's experiences of Lysine (assuming herpes confirmed)? We've had some good results with Flumax (lysine and a few other things including pomegranate and cranberry!). Helps to reduce the clinical signs associated with herpes and calici, and poss some effect on chlamydia too.

[/quote] Interesting to hear this. I like to think that nutriceuticals have some benefit but remain far from convinced. I know Lysine is supposed to have some anti-viral action against DNA viruses like FHV anyway, so this is one that may have some real foundation to it although I've yet to be convinced to try it. How many cases have you treated Jo and how confident are you that you can discount placebo effect?

Re: Recurrent cat flu

Jo Cobbett — Tue, 23 Jul 2013 13:16:41 GMT

Re: Recurrent cat flu

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 22 Jul 2013 14:05:24 GMT

This sounds like classic FHV picture but you could have chlamydia on top so is worth doing PCR as suggested. Agree on Doxy for chlamydia treat for 4 weeks and you can cure it but you must treat all contacts as well or it will just go round in circles. FHV you are stuck with, interferon treatment may alleviate the symptoms but its expensive and you're not going to cure it. FeLV is worth eliminating otherwise if it is +ve you're going no-where if its immunosuppressing, less likely to be FIV. Things may only improve if the kittens are re-homed into a less stressful environment and other concurrent problems like the diarrhoea sorted. The tooth discoloration is a theoretical problem but it is only cosmetic so its a no-brainer to get rid of chlamydia if it is indeed there.

Re: Recurrent cat flu

David Mills — Mon, 22 Jul 2013 12:55:33 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]I thought tetracyclines were contraindicated in young growing animals? [/quote]

I don't think so. Some tetracyclines have been reported to cause tooth discolouration by chelating calcium, but this is believed to be much less with doxy than, say oxytet. I've no reference for it and it may just be anecdotal; certainly in our hospital where our iso ward has about 10-20 cats/kittens in on various doxy treatments it is not something we see. The tetracyclines are quiet a diverse group so there's a tendency to lump them all together, wrongly.

The only major side effect I've seen is vomiting or diarrhoea, which doesn't happen often. Oesphagitis can happen but not if followed with food/water.

Amoxiclav is fine, but its use is based on one paper where it only worked if given for 28d. Personally, I think using such a broad spectrum agent is overkill.

Re: Recurrent cat flu

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:00:20 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]

Absolutely agree with David and reiterate use of doxycycline- should be first choice antibiotic in these cases, will treat mycoplasma as well.

[/quote]

Would you still use it in such young kittens? I thought tetracyclines were contraindicated in young growing animals? If i remember correctly, i got taught if doxy can't be used for any reason, use amoxyclav for 4-6 weeks, or 2 weeks after signs have disappeared, which every was the longest.

Re: Recurrent cat flu

Miriam Lodewyks — Sun, 21 Jul 2013 20:06:26 GMT

What Michael and David said...

Re: Recurrent cat flu

Kate Richardson — Sun, 21 Jul 2013 13:25:38 GMT

Absolutely agree with David and reiterate use of doxycycline- should be first choice antibiotic in these cases, will treat mycoplasma as well.

Re: Recurrent cat flu

David Mills — Sun, 21 Jul 2013 12:22:51 GMT

Some thoughts:

- PCR would be a very good idea. If money is tight a conjunctival swab, stained with Diff Quik, can show Chlamydia inclusion bodies in epithelial cells.

- Waxing and waning in absence of ulceration with response to amoxiclav sounds like Chlamydia.

- fuci won't kill chlamydia, and is just an (expensive) lubricant in these cases.

- Cats need to take in at least 70% of their RER for effective immunologic function - if the smaller kitten is losing weight this is a bad sign

- For Chlamydia you will need a 25-28d day course of doxycyline or a 28d course of amoxiclav. Seeing weekly for re0weighing is imperative. If the o doesn't want further diagnostics, then an empirical tx with doxy is indicated.

- Despite this, Chlamydia may become chronic or leave permanent damage. This can cause a variety of signs, the most common one we see is scarred/permanently blocked tear ducts.

- It still could be herpes with 2y infection, in which case Mr Woodhouse may be right.

Re: Recurrent cat flu

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 21 Jul 2013 01:26:22 GMT

Conversely how fond is she of these two stray cats? Recurrent cases so early in life might it be better to euthanase and she could rehome two other nice healthy kittens in need of a good home?

Some of these animals end up with regular flare ups throughout life and I do sometimes wonder how fair it is on the cats.

Await red stars.

Re: Recurrent cat flu

Braden Collins — Sat, 20 Jul 2013 08:14:08 GMT

I would start with a PCR test to try to establish exactly what you're dealing with. Herpes infection is going to need very different treatment to chlamydia. Check FeLV status and go from there. Otherwise you're going to keep shooting blind with no idea what's working or even appropriate to use.