Ehlers-Danlos syndrome

Re: Ehlers-Danlos syndrome

Wren — Thu, 18 Jul 2013 16:41:38 GMT

I saw a pony with this. It only really came to light as a 3yo when the owner tried to put tack on it to break it in, but the tack ripped and stretched the skin. I euthanased it.

Re: Ehlers-Danlos syndrome

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 18 Jul 2013 14:45:48 GMT

Sorry Clair. I didn't realise your school didn't come under the jurisdiction of RCVS.

Wynne

Re: Ehlers-Danlos syndrome

Mark Naguib — Thu, 18 Jul 2013 11:40:01 GMT

My very first dermatology case on my first day working as a qualified vet was an Ehlers Danlos dog. Unfortunately the owners opted for euthanasia so I can't be of much help.

Re: Ehlers-Danlos syndrome

Clair Firth — Wed, 17 Jul 2013 18:27:41 GMT

The calf was pitiful. The first thing we did was give it the NSAIDs in an attempt to make it more comfortable. The local vet had attempted to stitch the existing wounds but (as previous posters have stated), the wounds started to tear and when s/he saw it again, it was immediately transfered to uni (max 1hr drive) as the vet had never seen anything like this before - it was a heifer calf and the farmer wanted to save it if possible. At this stage nobody knew what was wrong with it. Once it arrived at uni and was treated and examined, the decision was made to euthanase it ASAP. Which was definitely the right decision.

Re: Ehlers-Danlos syndrome

Claire Fisher — Wed, 17 Jul 2013 18:23:45 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

That poor calf must have been in agony. I think it should have been euthanased IMMEDIATELY-and (like Mr Chikosi's case) is one for DC.I'm not excusing Mr C -but it should be "one rule for all"

Wynne

[/quote]

From memory I think Clair is at uni in Vienna so the DC have no jurisdiction. (I agree about euthanasing it straight away though)

Re: Ehlers-Danlos syndrome

Linda Filshie — Wed, 17 Jul 2013 17:49:37 GMT

I would imagine the cuts/rips/tears are as painful as they would be in a normal animal, as I can't see a collagen deficiency affecting the nociceptive pathways.

That calf does sound pitiful. While I can see the benefits of students seeing interesting/unusual cases ante-mortem there is a massive ethical issue here, I think.

Re: Ehlers-Danlos syndrome

Elizabeth Tuley — Wed, 17 Jul 2013 16:13:42 GMT

Thanks, all. I've just heard that the wound I stitched on Saturday has broken down and the surrounding skin looks terrible, so I'm referring it on as an emergency case to a dermatologist today, but it may be a PTS as the owner is justifiably struggling to maintain this dog with any kind of life. He's such an active young dog I can't see him coping well. We'll see what the derm specialist says though!

Re: Ehlers-Danlos syndrome

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 17 Jul 2013 15:56:20 GMT

That poor calf must have been in agony. I think it should have been euthanased IMMEDIATELY-and (like Mr Chikosi's case) is one for DC.I'm not excusing Mr C -but it should be "one rule for all"

Wynne

Re: Ehlers-Danlos syndrome

Clair Firth — Wed, 17 Jul 2013 15:50:45 GMT

We recently had a calf at uni with this syndrome (I'm a final year student so my experience is very limited but we all had to look this syndrome up to be able to discuss the case during rounds!). It was a very extreme case, skin was virtually falling off. From one hole on the flank you could literally see through, under the skin to another hole in the thorax I was told to give it a subcut dose of NSAID which ran out of the other injuries on the neck.

I cannot imagine keeping an animal like this alive, maybe they're not in pain but I can't imagine it being a great life :-( Sorry :-( We euthanased the calf. Apart from being small and weak it was relatively "healthy" - not febrile, most parameters normal - so I suppose you could argue that they're not suffering. (Patho also showed that all organs were normal, apart from the skin). But this calf had "superficial" injuries from being delivered by the farmer - which had been stitched by the local vet and the stitched skin was falling off.

Good luck in finding a solution....like I said, our case was very extreme....stitching wounds together (as the previous poster did with the cat) was impossible in this calf, I really hope that your case is better

Re: Ehlers-Danlos syndrome

Carolyn Danbury — Wed, 17 Jul 2013 15:36:29 GMT

We used to treat a cat with this condition. Lovely cat with lovely owners. My colleague declawed him in the end as despite being an indoor single cat and wearing a babygro he was still in approximately monthly for a wound suture. It was like trying to suture the skin on a chicken fillet. Not the best fun ever! As far as I can remember he lived a number of years before succumbing to his heart disease.

I think the bodysuit sounds like a good idea - at least as a trial - but I fear the QOL for a young collie with this condition will be limited...

Re: Ehlers-Danlos syndrome

bob lehner — Wed, 17 Jul 2013 14:36:43 GMT

We had a beagle with this syndrome in the practice years ago.

Skin was incredibly stretchy and would tear like paper. Was forever coming in for stitch up/stapling. Went on for years . Sadly I don't know what eventually happened to it.

Re: Ehlers-Danlos syndrome

Gina Dungworth — Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:35:41 GMT

I saw a probable case in a cat years ago. It had been in for several stitch-ups before we realised how stretchy its skin was. Not sure what happened to it in the end, as it mostly saw one of the other vets, but I remember us debating the ethics of declawing the other cats in the household (we felt better over the legal aspects than the moral ones) vs cutting all their claws as short as possible vs hoping for the best every time it decided to play with one of them.

Your patient sounds like a more extreme case, though, and I sympathise without being able to offer any better suggestions beyond trying to keep it quiet (about as much chance of that as there is of me not doing all the fun things that aggravate my own connective tissue issues).

Re: Ehlers-Danlos syndrome

Elizabeth Tuley — Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:27:56 GMT

[quote user="chris jones"]

Sounds horrible

I havent dealt with one but maybe a coat of some type.

I have been quite impressed with the Equafleece types. (google) they can be made up to your specification. The standard ones are fleece based so may be a bit warm but they might be able to use thinner material just to give his skin a bit of coverage. the ones I was thinking of go most of the way up the neck cover all of the trunk to the belly/groin area and front legs down to the mid radius area and back legs to mid femur. I'll try to find a link and repost.

regards

chris

edit - www.equafleece.co.uk uk company worth a call to see if they could make up a special that isnt so thick and warm.

[/quote]

Thanks, that's really helpful. We have been using T-shirts etc but they look like they'd provide more protection and at least cover more body area.

Re: Ehlers-Danlos syndrome

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:16:16 GMT

I hadn't heard of it-sounds horrible. Poor dog,poor owner and poor you.

Wynne

Re: Ehlers-Danlos syndrome

Anonymous — Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:12:51 GMT

Sounds horrible

I havent dealt with one but maybe a coat of some type.

regards

chris

edit - www.equafleece.co.uk uk company worth a call to see if they could make up a special that isnt so thick and warm.