potentiated amoxocillin

Re: potentiated amoxocillin

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 15 May 2013 17:16:56 GMT

[quote user="patrick murphy"]

I only got interested in this after reading last week about 3 months of clav/amaox reliving chronic back pain quite successfully in the appropriate cases, and then wondered about the aforementioned differences in the ratio of the 2 drugs, and wondered which one caused these miracles?

[/quote] It struck me when first reading about this that perhaps some human back pain sufferers have a previously undiagnosed form of discospondylitis but apparently the logic in this was that a number of intervertebral disc prolapses in humans apparently become secondarily infected, although an explanation as to the source of such infection wasn't offered presumably by haemotogenous spread from some other focus, so not quite a miracle.

Re: potentiated amoxocillin

patrick murphy — Tue, 14 May 2013 13:37:36 GMT

Re: potentiated amoxocillin

Christopher Saul — Sat, 11 May 2013 22:24:48 GMT

[quote user="John Flynn"]I think the relevant European directive requires that companion animals are treated like farm animals[/quote]

All the more reason to avoid the quinolone where possible I would have thought...

Re: potentiated amoxocillin

patrick murphy — Sat, 11 May 2013 11:37:51 GMT

whenever I have had surgery, except dermoid stuff, I have without exception had iv augmentin

Re: potentiated amoxocillin

John Flynn — Sat, 11 May 2013 04:00:46 GMT

[quote user="Christopher Saul"]I don't think there are any licensed IV potentiated amoxycillins, no. Marbocyl is licensed for IV use but is plainly not suitable for substitution in place of potentiated amoxycillin...[/quote]

I quite obviously do the same as you as it makes good logical sense to me, but I think the relevant European directive requires that companion animals are treated like farm animals (where legitimate residue concerns exist) and the use of a drug licensed for that use in that species by preference, followed by a drug licensed for use in another non-human species, and only lastly a human drug if the former options have been exhausted. I think as well as saying there are no iv amox/clav preparations, you technically need a case as to why, in that individual clinical case, you need an iv amox/clav preparation as opposed to, say, an IM amox/clav preparation or an IV marbofloxacin preparation etc.

Re: potentiated amoxocillin

John Flynn — Sat, 11 May 2013 03:45:25 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

[quote user="John Flynn"]Also, are there actually any studies looking at the pharmacokinetics of clavulanic acid in the dog?[/quote]

Yes http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12755899 which shows a lot of variation, as in people: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12562705

[/quote]

thanks, that's interesting.

I always wonder when using amox/clav what the clav part will do on this occasion. I commonly use iv amox/clav prior to joint surgery for instance, but have no idea what the context-specific PK/PD of iv clavulanic acid is in the dog, nor whether its tissue penetration will lead to therapeutic levels in the joint fluid etc.

Seems like human medicine, in spite of much better data, still wonders the same sometimes e.g.:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10852529

Re: potentiated amoxocillin

Christopher Saul — Fri, 10 May 2013 20:22:53 GMT

[quote user="John Flynn"](also I think there are other iv antibiotics licensed for use in dogs in UK - no?)[/quote]

I don't think there are any licensed IV potentiated amoxycillins, no. Marbocyl is licensed for IV use but is plainly not suitable for substitution in place of potentiated amoxycillin...

Re: potentiated amoxocillin

Rob Loxley — Fri, 10 May 2013 20:05:27 GMT

[quote user="John Flynn"]Also, are there actually any studies looking at the pharmacokinetics of clavulanic acid in the dog?[/quote]

Yes http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12755899 which shows a lot of variation, as in people: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12562705

Re: potentiated amoxocillin

John Flynn — Fri, 10 May 2013 19:50:02 GMT

[quote user="Christopher Saul"]Being pedantic we can use IV augmentin as there is no animal licensed IV prep.... [/quote]

That assumes that iv use has a benefit over im use: makes logical sense I'll admit, but I think may be more difficult to prove this one...

(also I think there are other iv antibiotics licensed for use in dogs in UK - no?)

Also, are there actually any studies looking at the pharmacokinetics of clavulanic acid in the dog?

Re: potentiated amoxocillin

Bob Russell — Fri, 10 May 2013 14:45:56 GMT

[quote user="Christopher Saul"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Not sure but the human preps cannot be prescribed for pets anyway in the UK at least!

[/quote]

Being pedantic we can use IV augmentin as there is no animal licensed IV prep....

in answer to the question as to why the ratios are different, not too sure, but I had idly asked myself the same question ...

[/quote]

I was assuming that we were talking tablets if getting medication from the chemist!

Re: potentiated amoxocillin

Rob Loxley — Fri, 10 May 2013 00:17:31 GMT

Human amoxicillin/clavulanic acid tablets are available in a variety of ratios of these two. I was under the understanding that it allows one to give higher amox doses (where needed) without overdoing the clav.

Re: potentiated amoxocillin

Christopher Saul — Thu, 09 May 2013 17:24:38 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Not sure but the human preps cannot be prescribed for pets anyway in the UK at least!

[/quote]

Being pedantic we can use IV augmentin as there is no animal licensed IV prep....

in answer to the question as to why the ratios are different, not too sure, but I had idly asked myself the same question ...

Re: potentiated amoxocillin

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 09 May 2013 14:09:26 GMT

I never thought about it before but as I had an idle moment I had a look. In Synulox the amount varies according to tablet size but always at 4:1 ratio amoxycillin to clavulanic acid even in the palatable drops. Augmentin has 125mg clavulanic acid whatever the tablet size, but much less in powder for suspension or injection and the ratio varies So why is that? Maybe there is a minimum required for mode of action but a maximum per unit bodyweight so as our patients are generally much lighter and have a much greater variation in body mass, as do human paediatric patients in which the suspension is more likely to be used, it has to be calculated more accurately.

Re: potentiated amoxocillin

Bob Russell — Thu, 09 May 2013 14:03:07 GMT

Not sure but the human preps cannot be prescribed for pets anyway in the UK at least!