Baytril in Chickens...

Re: Baytril in Chickens...

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:49:01 GMT

But we can treat a bird with 10% Baytril so long as she is not coming into lay for 14 days and sell the first egg the bird lays (and everyone after that)?

It is all a load of rubbish.

Re: Baytril in Chickens...

Rob Loxley — Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:44:52 GMT

So I spoke to Bayer's Technical advisor today who said:
no data on residue time for eggs
suggest owners advised to wait 6 weeks after last use before eating eggs themselves
but never should sell eggs / products made with the eggs
should get disclaimer signed to the effect that essentially we don't know how long the drug may be present, and 6wks is a cautious guess

Re: Baytril in Chickens...

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 24 Apr 2013 09:45:45 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

But the science is the important bit; we're often using drugs off-license.

[/quote]

The difference in this case is that we're not considering using it for something that is not mentioned in the license, but for something the license expressly says we can't use it for. So however crazy it seems we have it written down in black and white that we can't do it.

Re: Baytril in Chickens...

Rob Loxley — Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:33:51 GMT

[quote user="KMurphy"]Maybe we should get in touch with Bayer and ask the reasons behind it.[/quote]

I'll quiz the rep tomorrow!

Re: Baytril in Chickens...

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 23 Apr 2013 15:23:08 GMT

[quote user="Lynn Broom"]My understanding is that enrofloxacin is banned in hens producing eggs for human consumption for the life of that bird to minimise the risk of enrofloxacin resistant bacteria being transferred to humans which may remain present within that hen for the rest of its life and, potentially, be transferred via its eggs. [/quote]

Can't be that. See my quote on Baytril 10% with a chicken licence:

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

10% oral solution licensed in chickens:

Do not use in laying hens producing eggs for human consumption.

Do not administer to layer replacement birds within 14 days of coming into lay

[/quote]

Re: Baytril in Chickens...

Lynn Broom — Tue, 23 Apr 2013 14:58:45 GMT

[quote user="KMurphy"]

[quote user="robloxley"]But the science is the important bit; we're often using drugs off-license.[/quote]

I agree. Maybe we should get in touch with Bayer and ask the reasons behind it. Not sure I'll have a chance today but can put it onto my to-do list!

[/quote]

My understanding is that enrofloxacin is banned in hens producing eggs for human consumption for the life of that bird to minimise the risk of enrofloxacin resistant bacteria being transferred to humans which may remain present within that hen for the rest of its life and, potentially, be transferred via its eggs. The USA have much stricter controls on the use of fluoroquinolones in farm animals for this same reason. Not sure this is based on science but that is the reason given.

Re: Baytril in Chickens...

KMurphy — Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:13:12 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]But the science is the important bit; we're often using drugs off-license.[/quote]

I agree. Maybe we should get in touch with Bayer and ask the reasons behind it. Not sure I'll have a chance today but can put it onto my to-do list!

Re: Baytril in Chickens...

Rob Loxley — Tue, 23 Apr 2013 08:43:45 GMT

[quote user="KMurphy"]

Please explain the science (beyond licensing/market authorisations) behind the forever bit

I don't have the science but the licensing bit is correct, annoyingly - there was an article in one of the recent VDS newsletters about this and it's absolutely true. Baytril should never be used in egg-laying birds as the eggs can never be sold! Or eaten, I suppose.

[/quote]

But the science is the important bit; we're often using drugs off-license.

Re: Baytril in Chickens...

KMurphy — Mon, 22 Apr 2013 15:49:01 GMT

Please explain the science (beyond licensing/market authorisations) behind the forever bit

I used to dispense it with a 14 days withdrawal. I had one client tell me afterwards that she fed the unusable eggs to all her other chickens. Doh!! She's since been put right :)

Re: Baytril in Chickens...

Rob Loxley — Sat, 20 Apr 2013 00:32:56 GMT

[quote user="rjhvet"]eggs not fit for human consumption after treatment with Baytril oral ( forever!)[/quote]

Please explain the science (beyond licensing/market authorisations) behind the forever bit.

Re: Baytril in Chickens...

rjhvet — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 23:03:50 GMT

Hi,

My understanding after poultry cpd with Victoria Roberts, eggs not fit for human consumption after treatment with Baytril oral ( forever!), Baytril injectable ok with usual with holds, Tylan can be used and eggs consumed, is not recommended for use because is for IM use and damages muscle, not a problem with majority of our chicken patients.

Re: Baytril in Chickens...

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 18:38:04 GMT

Minefield.

10% oral solution licensed in chickens:

Do not use in laying hens producing eggs for human consumption.

Do not administer to layer replacement birds within 14 days of coming into lay

2.5% that pet vets have on the shelf:

Not for use in poultry (chickens and turkeys).

Then you have something like Tylan that is commonly used in poultry (even on the BVA poster)

Tylan 200 should not be given to chickens or turkeys.

Recently it was suggested that this precludes ever selling eggs from chickens treated with Bayrtil. Logically that is bollocks.