collapsed dog - any advice gratefully received!

Re: collapsed dog - any advice gratefully received!

morna — Mon, 11 Mar 2013 02:29:45 GMT

Lucy - as soon as my colleague came in on Wednesday morning he was convinced this was Ongaonga toxicity. I had no idea nettles could be so poisonous. This variety has been known to kill cattle and even one unlucky hiker. I'll definitely keep a closer eye on where I put my feet next time I'm out tramping!

I handed over the care of 'Boss' to my colleagues on Wed morning. He was much the same for the next 24h then made a steady improvement. Although not 100% normal yet the owners have elected to nurse him at home. Looks like he's on the way to a full recovery. Thank you everyone for your help.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00480169.2012.704625#tabModule - quite an interesting preview though sadly not rich enough to buy the full article at the moment

Re: collapsed dog - any advice gratefully received!

Glenn Hodgson — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 22:37:41 GMT

I agree above. tetanus q1st thing that sprang to mind. alsohave seen a dog with similar signs haveing eaten a full loaf of bread mould dust. I had to progress from high doses of diaz to propofol. the mould dog did well dispite looking terrible at the time.

Re: collapsed dog - any advice gratefully received!

Christopher Saul — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 21:25:45 GMT

I know its hardly peer reviewed but here it is, note the 'significance for people' section at the bottom of the page, in which it reports that horses, dogs and one human have been known to die following stings from this plant

http://www.canterburynature.org/species/lincoln_essays/treenettle.php

Re: collapsed dog - any advice gratefully received!

Christopher Saul — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 21:08:19 GMT

You mention stinging nettles..... I read somewhere that although NZ is free from snakes, poisonous spiders and the like, the only really dangerous wildlife is a particularly viscious stinging nettles - they have stinging nettle trees... urtica ferox

Re: collapsed dog - any advice gratefully received!

Braden Collins — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 14:47:00 GMT

I'd agree poinsoning likely. Personal experience with 1080 is diazepam is not enough to control seizures. I've always found they require a full GA which is maintained for around 48 hours to allow the toxin to be metabolised/excreted. I'd think strychnine or maybe an OP or snail pellets are more likely.

Strychnine can sometimes be "tested" for by a loud sudden noise - if you clap your hands hear them to startle they will become stiff and often have a saw-horse stance. If it's been reacting like that to stimulation that would increase my level of suspiscion.

Good luck with it and hope it's going well.

Re: collapsed dog - any advice gratefully received!

Pippa de Chassart — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 03:28:20 GMT

Tetanus?

Re: collapsed dog - any advice gratefully received!

Sandra Milburn — Wed, 06 Mar 2013 13:40:34 GMT

Mycotoxins of some sort? Was thinking strychnine as well. No old wounds (? tetanus?)

Re: collapsed dog - any advice gratefully received!

James Laidlaw — Wed, 06 Mar 2013 13:38:22 GMT

1080 is what we had in NZ, but not sure if that's moved on. No paralysis ticks in NZ either. OP's are around in some form as sheep dip on farms, but not sure if they're restricted now or not.

if clinical signs are improved and finances limited, I'd persist with symptomatic treatment and pain relief (buperenorphine I guess) and monitor. Lepto is around in NZ if light sensitive - jaundice at all? Drug ingestion a possibility too, depending on the location in NZ! Good luck!

Re: collapsed dog - any advice gratefully received!

Lucy Fleming — Wed, 06 Mar 2013 13:06:08 GMT

Could the nettles have been tree nettle at all (Ongaonga/ Urtica ferox) rather than ordinary nettle? Can't find much info on clinical signs in dogs though. Best of luck, pig dogs can be pretty tough!

Re: collapsed dog - any advice gratefully received!

Bob Russell — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 17:44:45 GMT

May be a low dose of atropine to reduce the salivation? Not sure if organophosphate compounds are available in NZ.

Re: collapsed dog - any advice gratefully received!

morna — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 17:39:31 GMT

No paralysis ticks as far as I'm aware. Almost 100% sure this is some kind of poisoning. He's responded well to diazepam alone. Only occasional facial twitching and muscle fasciculations. Blood glucose stable. The salivation is pretty impressive! Abdo comfortable now. Any movement seems to cause limb extension and marked rigidity. I guess time will tell as long the owners are willing to wait and see. Thanks for the advice. The client isn't one of ours (we cover 2 other vets OOH but think I'll suggest he stays here today as moving him probably not a good idea.

Re: collapsed dog - any advice gratefully received!

Bob Russell — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 17:17:47 GMT

Treat in the same way you would Metaldehyde poisoning I would suggest. Diazepam (already started) poss propofol?

It sounds as if not much can make things worse so minimise the severity of symptoms. Even if you lose the patient you will have improved its welfare!

Treat what you see and keep fingers crossed!

Re: collapsed dog - any advice gratefully received!

Tim Browning — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 15:56:54 GMT

Poor possums as Dame Edna would probably say

Re: collapsed dog - any advice gratefully received!

Richard Carter — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 15:42:02 GMT

do they have any of the paralysis ticks in NZ?

Re: collapsed dog - any advice gratefully received!

morna — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 15:08:37 GMT

The most common poison as far as I can tell is 1080 (sodium fluoroacetate).

'The signs of poisoning are usually noticed within half an hour of ingestion, although symptoms can take more than six hours to manifest. Initial symptoms include vomiting, anxiety, disorientation and shaking. These quickly develop into frenzied behavior with running and screaming fits, drooling at the mouth, uncontrolled paddling and seizures, followed by total collapse and death.' from: http://mudgeevet.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=21:1080-poisoning-in-dogs&catid=12:dogs&Itemid=13

I had read about this before but having a second look it does look suspiciously like the signs this dog is showing.

No known antidote and almost always fatal from what I've read so hopefully it's not that - though with the neuro signs and recent history of being in the forest has to be near to the top of the list. Will keep my fingers crossed. He did start having muscle tremors. So far well controlled with diazepam.

Re: collapsed dog - any advice gratefully received!

Rachel Dean — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 14:50:54 GMT

could it be preictal/ seizure ? or wierd over reaction to nettles ? try steroids maybe ? depends on plan for tomorrow prob nothing to loose giving dex iv esp if limited finances

Re: collapsed dog - any advice gratefully received!

Laurence Webb — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 13:30:12 GMT

Is strychnine used as bait for possums?