Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Rob Davis — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 12:12:27 GMT

[quote user="Hanna Bennett"]as far as i am aware 10 wk vaccs recommend 2 weeks before immunity reached[/quote]

We use nobivac (when we can get hold of it...!) which recommends a 10 week finish, although as previously discussed we choose to advise finishing at 12 weeks. They suggest one week for DHP immunity to develop but 2 weeks for Lepto.

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Hanna Bennett — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 20:21:28 GMT

we have a fair number of unvaccinated dogs in our area, and therefore we see parvo. our (12 wk) vaccine has a week's lapse between 2nd vacc and parvo immunity so our pups go out at 13 wks. as far as i am aware 10 wk vaccs recommend 2 weeks before immunity reached ie. 12 wks. if it was my dog i would choose an extra week over a 10 wk finish. we recommend folk carry pups round/ take them for drives to help with socialisation and don't really have an issue, and i have seen the difference - recently saw an 18wk labrador for fv - o had been busy over xmas so delayed it (!) and that had socialisation issues - never been out of the house/garden and was properly fear aggressive.

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Mark Holmes — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 17:26:28 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]up to a 20% failure to impart full immunity[/quote]

'up to' is a tricky phrase........I would like to see more concrete figures before changing my regime.

Do vets who recommend a later finish still advise not walking /socialising puppies until after the later completion date?

[/quote] I advocate a later finish and it is really frustrating getting a puppy from a 10 week finishing practice and then having to explain that I prefer a 12 week finish. Often that means the two vacs are then too far apart and I end up advising a third. Regarding exercise it depends on the circumstances, unless city bound I generally say that whilst manufacturer recommends waiting there are sound reasons to accept a slight risk and get them out as benefits out way the risks in most cases, particularly in rural heavily vaccinated areas.

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 13:07:36 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]up to a 20% failure to impart full immunity[/quote]

'up to' is a tricky phrase........I would like to see more concrete figures before changing my regime.

Do vets who recommend a later finish still advise not walking /socialising puppies until after the later completion date?

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 10:13:03 GMT

[quote user="Hanna Bennett"]and as for vaccinated dogs - agree 10 wk vaccs do not protect, have seen breakdowns [/quote] I know that vaccine companies are aware that there is up to a 20% failure to impart full immunity with a 10 week finish. Why do certain companies continue to advise a 10 week finish in their data sheets?

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Hanna Bennett — Sun, 20 Jan 2013 22:15:19 GMT

we had a peak pre xmas and are now going back thru it again, frequent bloody diarrhoea and acute severe vomission followed by 24-48 hrs inappetance, lots stay in on ivft as we were seeing quite a few back a few hours later with symp tx as lethargic and miserable. nothing found as a cause yet.

and as for vaccinated dogs - agree 10 wk vaccs do not protect, have seen breakdowns and been told by vaccine companies that dogs are not protected til first yearly booster - we do 12 wk vaccs as standard and offer 16 wk top ups for black and tans

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Rachael Winder — Sat, 19 Jan 2013 12:31:27 GMT

I work in Preston, so close to original poster. Have worked in the area for 8years and would agree that there is always a peak in late autumn/early winter. However my practice has also seen many more severe v/d cases than usual. None have had much work up but have needed more aggressive management than usual. Have also had a few needing ivft. Most affected are exercised off lead in rural areas and at least 2 were noted by the owners to have been playing in stagnant standing water. I do think there may well be a link with how much standing water there is about lately, it's certainly the wettest I can remember it being round here.

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Bob Russell — Sat, 19 Jan 2013 10:06:16 GMT

No more, no less here! None needing IVFT but plenty of oral fluids and Cerenia if necessary.

We are pretty 'heavy handed' with puppy vacs here. 8, 12 and 16-18 week (parvo). Understood and accepted by owners without problem. Full booster at a year and subsequent full boosters every four years.

We do see a lot of cases testing positive to giardia so fenbendazole comes out quite regularly.

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Sandra Milburn — Sat, 19 Jan 2013 09:59:40 GMT

Definitely think there is an increase in cases with vomiting and diarrhoea cases this year. Found there were much less 'Christmas induced' ones, but seeing everything from colitis, to small intestinal diarrhoea and vomiting. Most seem to respond well to conservative treatment though.

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

karen jones — Sat, 19 Jan 2013 08:49:15 GMT

We had had huge increase in v and d which has just tailed off. We cultured everything from giardia, campylobacter, crypto and cl perfingens. Several have had huge neutrophilia and we have lost two despite all we could throw at them . Our theory is contamination of water from slurry, fields etc as we've had such a lot of standing water

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Rob Davis — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 19:29:14 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]It was an 8 month old whippetx, had primary vaccine course with us using Nobivac[/quote]

Out of interest, at what age was the second vaccination given? We had a run of parvo in vaccinated puppies a few years ago when we were doing second vaccinations at 10 weeks (this has been discussed on a couple of occasions in different threads). Since changing our recommendation to 12 weeks (or and extra parvo at 16 weeks), we have not had any further breakdowns. All were reports via SARRS and we had extensive correspondence with Intervet at the time (they were very helpful).

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Carolyn Danbury — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 15:40:55 GMT

This is my 6th winter in the Northeast (England) and i certainly felt like we saw a higher than usual incidence of v/d especially on the run-up to Christmas. Most improved very quickly on Diarsanyl and/or IVFT but some were really quite sick. Some of the owners reported vomiting in themselves, which did get me wondering about zoonoses.....!

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:18:46 GMT

Fair enough Anthony. I just wonder about some of these vaccine failures being due to the fact that owners have got the vaccine dates wrong (to give them the benefit of the doubt - maybe they are simply lying!) I have certainly had arguments with owners when they have insisted I have vaccinated their pet within the last 12 months yet my records clearly show it was an awful lot longer than that since they last came in!

More people seem to claim they have vaccine breakdowns than actually report the problem to the manufacturers.

Incidentally, it is worth knowing that if you definately consider something to be a vaccine breakdown, or a drug reaction, the manufacturer will often pay for diagnostics and treatment.

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Matt Hilary — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 12:37:07 GMT

Have also noticed a bit of an increase but not more than typical for this time of year - generally tell owners it's similar to the human norovirus situation!

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 10:26:32 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"] I had a bad experience in my 1st week out with a vaccinated dog that I was sure wasn't parvo, saw it every day for 3 days then when it was finally tested it came back positive on a snap test[/quote]

Just curious - how confident were you able to be about the vaccination status? I am not aware of any cases of parvo in vaccinated animals (but can admit I may have missed hundreds ) so would be interested in whether the vaccine details could be traced and, if so, did the vaccine company investigate this failure further?

[/quote]

It was an 8 month old whippetx, had primary vaccine course with us using Nobivac. Presented with marked lethargy and loose yellow diarrhoea, didn't link it to parvo at all. It may have been something else that caused it to go flat, then it picked up parvo from somewhere, as near and around Burnley/Accrington there is quite a high incidence of it. Unfortunately the pup was euthanased due to the owners being unable to afford treatment. I mentioned speaking to MSD about it at the time but I don't think it was chased up at all, what with me being so new to the practice I didn't push for it as hard as I probably should have

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 10:03:51 GMT

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 09:44:43 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]So far most have seen to settle with metronidazole, oxytetracycline, fenbendazole and gastroprotectants,[/quote] Can't say I've seen an increase in cases, just a bit more protracted course and no obvious cause in those I've seen. Not sure I agree with such indiscriminate use of antibiotics Anthony, I cant deny you certainly have all bases covered though!

[/quote]

Sorry, forgot to mention antibiotics only go to the dogs that are actually unwell with it, flat, inappetant and haven't responded to a single jab of cerenia and probiotics, followed by some gastroprotectants. If they haven't got a temperature they don't get antibiotics. I admit I probably reach for a parvo snap test to rule it out a bit too easily, mainly because I had a bad experience in my 1st week out with a vaccinated dog that I was sure wasn't parvo, saw it every day for 3 days then when it was finally tested it came back positive on a snap test... oops. Tense couple of weeks seeing if more dogs caught it from that branch!

I was speaking to the vets I work with at a meeting last night, and even the more experienced vets have noted a lot more than usual. We did have a problem with campy from a big local breeder beginning of autumn last year, but nothing else.

I'm fresh out of the vet school box so still have a ton to learn about seasonal variances, especially as I'm not originally from 'oop North', just wanted to check opinions to see if I'm not missing anything. This forum has been a massive help for my first few months with all the advice given about certain scenarios, and all the little hints and tips, so thanks everyone!

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 09:32:24 GMT

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 09:18:18 GMT

We've had a fair few cases in Bury and Bolton but I'd also say it is typical for the time of year.

Anthony -if you are concerned it would probably be more worthwhile doing a faecal culture than a snap test in a well vaccinated animal.

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Dagmar Steele — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 08:26:11 GMT

We had a run like that in November in Northern Germany. Lots of blood and diarrhea, none of them had Parvo or has eaten rat poison. Now we have a vomiting run, they throw up umpteenth times but no diarrhea.... Happy times, it's winter again :-)

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Jenny Smith — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:00:27 GMT

I'm doing OOH work in St Helens, we had a staff meeting at another clinic this evening and a few vets were commenting on an increase in the numbers of v/d dogs we're seeing. Seems like more than just the usual time of year rise, although most have done ok :) Jenny

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Jenny Smith — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:00:27 GMT

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 00:01:41 GMT

Anthony, do I recall rightly that you are a recent grad?

I'd say that around this time of year is about peak incidence of V/D in dogs. Cerenia/kaolin and intestinal food seem to sort 90%+.

I'd not normally test a 'well' vaccinated dog for parvo. Personally I never give antibiotics unless very sick, very high temp or ++ blood - unless I have a positive culture.

I suspect it's viral and a bit like the viral bugs that go around people this time of year causing similar symptoms.

I'd expect it every winter............

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

Noweia — Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:43:45 GMT

We had an increase in the usual number of V+/D+ cases the few weeks before Christmas and New Year. It seems to have tailed off now but I remember thinking at the time that we seemed to be having a run of them. In Scottish Central Belt.

Re: Increase in cases of Vomiting and Diarrhoea

emma o'connor — Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:52:56 GMT

I'm based down South in the New Forest, and we have seen a fair few gastroenteritis cases in the last month as well. Similar to you, some dogs seem less affected than others, and a few have been admitted for fluids and treatment. Again all fully vaccinated animals. We however have noticed the more severe cases, do have fresh blood in the faeces for about 24hours. All have responded to treatment. We put it down to the fact that the forest is saturated so people are walking in a more restricted area than normal, potentially increasing exposure of dogs to these bugs.