Advocate Efficacy

RE: Advocate Efficacy

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:14:26 GMT

[quote user="Gerry Henry"]Can't we call Angiostrongylus heart worm instead?[/quote]

Well the French do!

My take with Advocate is that I would not use it to treat any of the conditions mentioned but I feel it is pretty good at prevention, albeit a small number of people are starting to claim it not working against fleas. I suspect a lot of these failures are due to poor compliance in application given most pet owners are totally useless at doing anything - its quite hard for us to do in controlled conditions in the surgery with a calm dog.

I have been a firm fan for many years but am tending towards Nexguard Spectra which is prophetic as its advertised at the top of the page as I write! This more so as I've seen a lot more ticks this year that usual.

RE: Advocate Efficacy

Bob Russell — Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:49:48 GMT

We have had three cases where Seresto has not controlled fleas in dogs. One was a keen swimmer so perhaps an explanation there. Another was one of the white 'powder puff' dogs that was always being shampoo'd so forgiven there also! Last one was a bog standard New Forest Springer Spaniel that was not a water lover.

Keeping a close check on fleas with all products so overall fairly happy with imidocloprid but it is not that waterproof nor does it seem overly forgiving if the client does not use it at least every four weeks.

Still don't think it is that great value for money and there are better products available. Of course no product can be expected to work if it is not put on properly and at the right interval.

Oddly there is an advert for the stuff next to the box as I write ---->!

Strangely comforting to see Wynne still turning up on occasions!!

RE: Advocate Efficacy

Rob Loxley — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 23:05:12 GMT

[quote user="Benjamin Alyoshkin"]could it be that this cat's transdermal ability to assimilate Advocate has been affected by co-morbidities, incl lowered TP, at least partly due to severe watery diarrhoea?[/quote]

My understanding was that imidacloprid spread over the skin surface rather than penetrating the skin and acting systemically? Also why it is particularly affected buy swimming/bathing in dogs.

RE: Advocate Efficacy

Kate Richardson — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 21:05:35 GMT

BIG deja vu moment reading this post, bless you Wynne. Almost thought you had come back to haunt us (in a good way).

Personally, always been a bit sceptical of its efficacy

RE: Advocate Efficacy

Benjamin Alyoshkin — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 20:03:29 GMT

Hello Everyone

Noticed this forum re Adovcate and fleas with much interest. I have seen at least two dogs and one cat in the last month (June-July 2017, the south coast of England), coming from seemingly well-informed, good-compliance homes, where despite using Advocate monthly, I saw live fleas. The last animal, an 18-year old cat was treated with Advocate by myself, within the last 7 days, without much effect for that animal (could it be that this cat's transdermal ability to assimilate Advocate has been affected by co-morbidities, incl lowered TP, at least partly due to severe watery diarrhoea?). The other two cats in the same home, have been treated by the owners, and Acclaim has been used for the environmental control. I am beginning to question, just like yourselves four years ago, if Advocate is really a flea all-rounder? Thank you, Ben

Re: Advocate Efficacy

ruths — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 19:06:23 GMT

Hi David... Yy, I was looking for something newer. But I don't think there is anything specific abiut milbemycin in the uk. Hope the world is treating you well!

Re: Advocate Efficacy

David Mills — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 00:30:10 GMT

[quote user="ruths"]Yy I agree re the praziquantel but it says quite specifically on the data sheet to use the monotherapy for the follow up three weeks.. I think they use it like they in Canada I don't know if anyone has any data of the efficacy of milbenycin vs fenbendazole

[/quote]

Mox shows equal efficacy as fenbendazole in the treatment of A.v.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17544583

And mox carries by far the most evidential weight behind it:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19800738

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20700604

Milbemycin seems to be equally as effective but the numbers are very low, and it needs to be used weekly.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15264484

No scheme has been proven to prevent the occurrence of lungworm but pharmaceutical and life cycle data would suggest monthly moxidectin is very likely to be effective and of course is the most convenient. Milbemycin would need to be used weekly to have its effect (£££). Fenbendazole for 7d a month is possible but would you trust clients...

I'm personally a fan of advocate. I agree some of its claims may be far fetched, and yes it appears useless at treating clinical demodecosis, but its action against lungworm is great. We find it works well against mites in cats/kittens, even in the cases we see in strays which have been long standing and have significant ceruminous hyperplasia.

Re: Advocate Efficacy

Rob Loxley — Fri, 05 Apr 2013 00:11:40 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

My personal opinion is that Advocate is one of the most hyped products in history. Bayer appear to have invested a lot of effort in marketing what I am convinced is a mediocre product (except for flea control) whilst making pretty dramatic 100% efficacy claims (is anything really 100% effective?).

I accept 'lungworm' is a pretty scary parasite in a lot of ways but I have doubts that Advocate is anything like as good as its marketing!

[/quote]

My thoughts exactly... Though for flea control one could just use Advantage if going for imidacloprid.

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Praziquantal is (I understand) cleared by the body within hours so weekly treatment should not be a safety proble[/quote]

Elimination halflife about 2-3hrs in the dog with excretion complete within 48hrs, IIRC. Does make you wonder why the window before import for echinococcus control should have been widened upto 120 hrs...

Re: Advocate Efficacy

ruths — Thu, 04 Apr 2013 22:43:42 GMT

Yy I agree re the praziquantel but it says quite specifically on the data sheet to use the monotherapy for the follow up three weeks.. I think they use it like they in Canada I don't know if anyone has any data of the efficacy of milbenycin vs fenbendazole

Re: Advocate Efficacy

Bob Russell — Thu, 04 Apr 2013 21:03:59 GMT

I accept 'lungworm' is a pretty scary parasite in a lot of ways but I have doubts that Advocate is anything like as good as its marketing!

Praziquantal is (I understand) cleared by the body within hours so weekly treatment should not be a safety proble . Going off-licence should not be a problem if it is based on good reasoning and sound knowledge of the medicine involved.

Re: Advocate Efficacy

crazedndazed — Thu, 04 Apr 2013 20:29:38 GMT

We had a similar situation where a puppy was found to have roundworm on repeat faecal analysis despite monthly Advocate. I think Bayer said it was ~95% effective against roundworm and wanted the owner to demonstrate application of the product to us in the practice to confirm she was doing it correctly (which we believe she was). We were very concerned about this apparent lack of efficacy! And it is Advocate that we provide in our Pet Health Scheme because we have had cases of lungworm at the practice.

Re: Advocate Efficacy

ruths — Thu, 04 Apr 2013 20:16:52 GMT

Using milbemax weekly is most definitely against the data sheet... It's crazy, isn't it? Have you had any issues using it like that? I believe praziquantel to be relatively safe anyway..

Re: Advocate Efficacy

Mark Holmes — Mon, 14 Jan 2013 23:00:26 GMT

Advocate is licensed weekly for Demodex and I have found it very good at that frequency. I don't have a reference but I think it had a demonstrated efficacy of 90% at weekly applications. I also use it 2 weekly where sarcoptes or cheyletiella are suspected.

Re: Advocate Efficacy

Charlotte Marshall — Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:31:55 GMT

I've definately seen young healthy dogs - usually staffies where advocate seems to have done nothing! Have given up and used aludex on several occasions. I also prefer stronghold for sarcoptes.

Re: Advocate Efficacy

Utlendigur — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:05:28 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Young healthy dogs are quite likely to deal with demodex given enough time!

I suspect this is approximately the same period of time as the course of Advocate.

But then I am a lowly GP with a little knowledge on a lot of subjects!

[/quote]

That's what I was wondering...were the trials done on young healthy dogs, but in practice we're using it on geriatric cushingoid shih tzus..

Re: Advocate Efficacy

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:28:55 GMT

As I've said repeatedly Always start by advising what's clinically best-modify treatment downwards if you have to

Wynne

Re: Advocate Efficacy

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:22:00 GMT

Other options (usually dogs which vomit on panacur ) are milbemax -standard dose once weekly for 4 weeks then 4 weeks off then another standard dose Restart course 4 weeks later Some -usually owners who refuse the 1st 2 options get Advocate-but it's not the 1st option advised

Wynne

Re: Advocate Efficacy

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:18:03 GMT

Approx 50%-but I do have very good clients

Wynne

Re: Advocate Efficacy

James Laidlaw — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:10:58 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Regularly My standard worming regime is 7 days 1/2 strength panacur 1 month milbemax (single dose ) the next In Swansea a suspected case is 1 which hasn't been treated in the last 7 weeks

Wynne

[/quote]

What's your client compliance/uptake for this schedule like?

Re: Advocate Efficacy

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:47:03 GMT

Regularly My standard worming regime is 7 days 1/2 strength panacur 1 month milbemax (single dose ) the next In Swansea a suspected case is 1 which hasn't been treated in the last 7 weeks

Wynne

Re: Advocate Efficacy

James Laidlaw — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:43:32 GMT

So do you do 7 days panacur regularly or for suspected cases, and instead use milbemax every 2 months? Sorry - I must be having a slow brain day! I'm surprised no other company has pushed a licence for lungworm treatment claims yet, it's an open market!!!

Re: Advocate Efficacy

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:35:04 GMT

Definitely not when an inferior option is then presented as the gold standard

Wynne

Re: Advocate Efficacy

Thomas Johnson — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 15:54:10 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Thomas Cross ref to thread on advising the same as one would do for one's own pet Difficulty persuading owners is a non existent excuse foir not trying

[/quote]

I agree that we should discuss the treatment and present clients with the options, but surely we have to consider likely owner compliance?

Re: Advocate Efficacy

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 15:43:50 GMT

James 50mgs/kg daily for 7 days Do alternate months with single dose of milbemax as better for Toxocara Merialdid a worming survey a couple of years ago The Swansea practice they asked was me-and failed to find a single worm egg (pat pat on own back)

Thomas Cross ref to thread on advising the same as one would do for one's own pet Difficulty persuading owners is a non existent excuse foir not trying

Wynne

Re: Advocate Efficacy

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 15:39:58 GMT

I don't believe Advocate is fully effective at treating puppy roundworm infestation, Demodex or Sarcoptes. I use it in dogs solely for the (supposed) prevention of Angiostrongylus in the belief it should be reasonably effective at also protecting against the other things it is supposed to.. If it wasn't for that I would recommend Stronghold for dogs and cats (already recommend for cats) and I do not use it for treatment of clinical cases of Demodex (use Aludex or Milbemycin); Sarcoptes (Aludex or Stronghold), Toxocara (Milbemycin) or 'lungworm' (Fenbendazole).