microchip disaster by dog groomer

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

Stephen Courtney — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 23:15:22 GMT

^^^ that sort of thing is what lawyers are for. I am not sure how easy it is to access but i always take the legal cover option on my home iunsurance, it is supposed to cover contractual disputes.

I would lawyer up, or do the small claims thingy.

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

Claire McConnell — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 23:02:27 GMT

I can't believe an Id chip can end up there! Maybve I am naive but I hav enever considered this a risk of placing an ID chip and even with a wriggly puppy can not be easy to end up with chip in spinal column - how awful.

I don't have such an exciting story to tell but recently I saw a dig whoi had its ear chopped off by groomer who also refuse dto take liability and pay the £120 bill....

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

Stephen Courtney — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 18:06:35 GMT

Sadly i think it is more likely to develop into a corpse but......miracles happen

Non-vets' ideas of liablility can be a laugh. I have a whole degree and everything after doing my 5 year 'course', and MRCVS by examination, so does that mean I don't need VDS any more?If you cock up, you are liable, and that is what insurance is for. but msot of these policies have so many exclusions and caveats the chances are they aren't covered anyway.

I had a dog walker bring in a collapsed border collie with a chunk of tree stuck through her abdomen and a puddle of intestines dragging on the floor - she got excited and was playing with other dogs and somehow got rammed onto a spikey bit of dead tree. quite the stick injury...especially after someone pulled her off the branch and made things ten times worse...anyway while admitting the dog i asked her if she had liability insurance. After a shocked look she said no...then went away and blamed the entire incident on the owner's 'badly behaved dog' and informed the owner that she was no longer prepared to walk the dog!

I guess offense is the best defence.

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

Gerry Henry — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 12:42:57 GMT

Its a VS job but hey ho. Be interesting to see if it develops into a sarcoma later on.

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

plantagenet — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 10:28:37 GMT

I worry about microchipping being offered at parks and shows since I don't think it is ideal for the dog to get muddy immediately after implantation

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

James Laidlaw — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 07:51:46 GMT

Why wouldn't they be able to migrate? Surely even small movements in the cns/spine could be significant?

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 18:01:38 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Mellor"]I suppose the specialists run up huge bills and therefore run up huge bad debts - or are aware that this could happen so will only do work if payment is absolutely forthcoming .[/quote]

Yes, but..........

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

Andrew Mellor — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 17:40:42 GMT

i suppose it'snot going to migrate far from implant site - there has to be a plus side to this surely ?!

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

David Hopper — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 17:38:17 GMT

I had a 6 week old kitten brought in a couple of weeks ago from a rescue kennels quadriplegic after microchipping by an untrained member of staff. The chip was located within the foramen magnum in posterior region of the brain. I decided it was foolhardy to even attempt to recover it and it is a sterile unit, so I left it. The kitten has made a full recovery and it is now rehomed with one of my clients.

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

Andrew Mellor — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 17:37:26 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Was it a Toy or was it a Miniature[/quote]

toy and I suppose the specialists run up huge bills and therefore run up huge bad debts - or are aware that this could happen so will only do work if payment is absolutely forthcoming .

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 15:11:33 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Mellor"] 2 x neurologist will not accept payment from third parties insurance,[/quote]

Why not?

Is this not something of an urgent case?

[quote user="Andrew Mellor"]Groomer got quite aggitated that they were liable for fees as "surely owner was liable for leaving the pup with them " !! I don't often loose my cool but OMG I had to hold my tongue. And they had " done a course and have a certificate to prove it you know" . [/quote]

I feel if non-MsRCVS want to do bits of veterinary surgery they have to accept the consequences just like MsRCVS do.

Was it a Toy or was it a Miniature?

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 13:56:32 GMT

I wouldn't have kept my cool I'd have told the groomer straight that they were legally liable so would have to pay end of story-and sent the poor pup to a neurologist asap This is one I feel so strongly about I would probably offer to pay the neurologists fees -and then sued the groomer for neurologists fees + my solicitors fees if they argued +anything else I could possibly add on and I really wouldn't care if the groomer spends next Christmas in a cardboard box

Wynne

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

Jo Cobbett — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 13:23:39 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Mellor"]

Groomer got quite aggitated that they were liable for fees as "surely owner was liable for leaving the pup with them " !!

[/quote]

So why bother to have liability insurance if they aren't liable for anything they do anyway?!

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

James Allsop — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 13:18:02 GMT

Im sure I read a case study in JSFM a few years ago written by staff at AHT about a breeder who admitted "using more force than usual" when microchipping one of their cats before re-homing. If i remember correctly the cat made a full recovery following removal of the chip.

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

James Laidlaw — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 13:01:25 GMT

Owners didn't ram a chip into it's spine though, did they?! I doubt they'd have consented to that either! Also, do we all need these certificates? I've been chipping without mine for years!!! ;)

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

Andrew Mellor — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 12:41:33 GMT

groomer has liability insurance. 2 x neurologist will not accept payment from third parties insurance, neither groomer or owner can afford to foot bill so at the moment pup is stuck here. I have to say on a brighter note that he is actually brighter than yesterday with more movement and hind legs seem to have some return of proprioception and he has wagged his tail when the owners came to see him.

Groomer got quite aggitated that they were liable for fees as "surely owner was liable for leaving the pup with them " !! I don't often loose my cool but OMG I had to hold my tongue. And they had " done a course and have a certificate to prove it you know" .

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

Rob Loxley — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 11:40:24 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]

In this case, yes a disaster, and I wonder how much of this relates to being a lay chipper and how much is 'there but for the Grace of ...'

[/quote]

I'd go with the latter. Wasn't there a case report in the Vet Record a few yrs ago about insertion of a chip into the spinal column of an alpaca (though I can't remember whether it was done by a vet).
I would however agree with David that this is a very rare event, and too much outcry could seriously affect the level of chipping that occurs (both in and out of vet practices)

On a practical note, what is the comment from the groomer especially re insurance to cover treatment, as I'd be wanting to send it off to a neurologist sharpish?

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 09:47:03 GMT

Slight amendment to above It is minor surgery so I've no objection to RVNs microchipping -or student VNs following enrollment with Royal College-and in the case of students acting under direct supervision

Wynne

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 09:43:48 GMT

I agree with Mariette I'm always totally opposed to any relaxation in the definition of acts of veterinary surgery

Wynne

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

mariette asselbergs — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 09:37:34 GMT

To be honest Michael, 3 day old puppies are not very wriggly, a 17 week old toy puppy is.

I do feel sorry also for the person who did this. It is not the person's fault that they are allowed to do microchipping without any training or anatomical knowledge.

By the way, who took the decision that microchipping can be done by non-vets? Was it our own vet organisation the Royal College, or was this simply taken from us by non vets? If we vets are giving away our area of professional exclusivity, we are ourselves a bit responsible for the consequences, no?

Same for allowing farmers to do all kinds of procedures even though we know m,any of them are done totally wrong and based on ignorance.

Mariette

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

Stephen Courtney — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 00:02:09 GMT

I am not comfortable chipping tiny puppies. a 17 week old pup is not tiny, but potentially tricky enough.

I wrote to the BSAVA advising that i was against compulsory chipping of 8 week old pups before sale for this reason. as a vet i don't like doing it, and i think lay people should not be allowed to do it at all.

In this case, yes a disaster, and I wonder how much of this relates to being a lay chipper and how much is 'there but for the Grace of ...'

And i will eat my hat if the groomer has liability insurance, or if they do that it covers this sort of thing. But legally it cannot cost more than the veterinary treatment, othjer reasonable costs, and a replacement pup.

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

David Mills — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 21:04:12 GMT

Back to the clinical, if the dog has spastic paralysis there may be some hope: spastic paralysis is associated with UMN signs; UMN are lateralised in the spinal cord so the microchip may have entered a lateral component and may be removable in the right hands. Don't forget that only around 10% of spinal neurological material is required for function and much of what you're seeing now may be inflammatory exacerbated by being in a closed compartment. ALthough overall the prognosis has to be poor-very guarded, it may be that things improve with adequate pain relief and maintenance of spinal perfusion. You need a DV view.

For the number of dogs microchipped every day, this event is incredibly rare. I'd wager you prevent more tail injuries by docking (NNT 500 to prevent 1). For those sounding from the moral high ground about this potentially being an act of veterinary surgery - get real.

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 20:21:40 GMT

I just chipped 5 3 day old puppies today. My technique is to place the chip in a pinch of skin between my fingers. Very safe and very controlled.

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

Utlendigur — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 19:50:11 GMT

Wasn't there another case where the RSPCA killed someone's kitten by doing the same thing?

The DEFRA consultation on dangerous dogs seemed to be suggesting that it would be a good idea for all puppies to be microchipped by 8wks of age

"The minimum recommended age for a puppy to be sold or gifted is 8 weeks. The person selling, exchanging or giving the puppy away would need to chip it and register the puppies details, their details and those of the purchaser on a microchip database before the transfer of ownership (analogous to notifying change of ownership of a car)."

I really do not fancy the idea of microchipping 7wk old miniature yorkies or chihuahuas - does carry more risk than "notifying change of ownership of a car"

Re: microchip disaster by dog groomer

Gerry Henry — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 19:31:24 GMT

We always give 'breakable' breeds a bit of gas before microchipping, I have a horror of exactly this scenario.