Double microchip?

Re: Double microchip?

Wren — Fri, 07 Dec 2012 10:22:44 GMT

Re. coat colour - this isn't a huge issue. I have done passports on several occasions for bay/brown/black foals which susequently go grey. This often happens by the time the animal is 3 or 4. Even with reasonably valuable racehorses you'll often see them go through the ring at Doncaster and described in the catalogue as 'bay' etc. but the horse in front of you is grey. Thankfully pretty much every horse in racing is chipped now.

Re: Double microchip?

Luke Edwards — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 23:34:08 GMT

Mr Woodhouse,

It is an offence to "alter any entry in a passport" - I take that to mean you should not annote the ID, but I might be wrong.
The vaccines are dealt with in section 15 - they count as veterinary medicinal products.
The regs say it is also an offence for a vet not to take measures to"detect previous active marking of equidae" before inserting a chip - ie we could be prosecuted for not scanning the horse before we put the chip in .
The same EU document you refer also says that if find a previously inserted chip it is upto "the issuing authority" to supply a duplicate or replacement passport - this is why I think it is the passport agency's problem, not ours.

Re: Double microchip?

Busybee — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:33:28 GMT

Not quite the same thing but I had this thread running last year which may be helpful....

www.vetsurgeon.org/.../9496.aspx

Re: Double microchip?

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:18:09 GMT

[quote user="Luke Edwards"]but strictly speaking annotating a passport is an offence under the The Horse Passport Regulations 2009 (as is vaccinating a horse and not filling the passport in- not that anyone would do such a thing...)[/quote]

Just read the regs and I can't find either.

Prohibitions
17. It is an offence to—
(a) destroy or deface a passport;
(b) alter any entry in a passport; or
(c) be in possession of a passport knowing it to be forged.

A sticker saying there are two microchips shouldn't destroy, deface or alter the passport. Nothing about vaccinations that I could find.

The Passport regs to refer to an EU document that states:

Measures to detect previous active marking of equidae
1. The measures referred to in Article 9 shall include, at least,
measures to detect:
(a) any transponder previously implanted, using a reading
device complying with ISO standard 11785 and capable
of reading HDX and FDX-B transponders at least when
the reader is in direct contact with the body surface on
the spot where under normal circumstances a transponder
is implanted;
(b) any clinical signs indicating that a transponder previously
implanted has been surgically removed;
(c) any other alternative mark on

So basically we have exercised due diligence running the scanner over the horse.

How many vets write in the passport when you prescribe bute etc? I tell owners to, but never write it in myself.

Re: Double microchip?

Luke Edwards — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:03:22 GMT

I broadly agree with Mr Woodhouse, but strictly speaking annotating a passport is an offence under the The Horse Passport Regulations 2009 (as is vaccinating a horse and not filling the passport in- not that anyone would do such a thing...)

This might be why the passport agency want a letter - really it is up to them to do the alterations - they are just asking you to confirm the current state of the horses so they can do this I would imagine

I can't see it is necessarily a huge problem - if the microchip number on the passport matches the one in the horse - then that its' passport - get the passport agency to sort out the discrepencies.

I have found a few horses with more than one microchip - should n't happen but it does now and again.

Re: Double microchip?

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:02:34 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]all the horses have been identified as being the wrong colour, which according to the passport agency is an issue.[/quote]

Not really up to them. The microchip is the definitive identification - period.

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Which is why I'm trying to contact the previous vet to clarify whether it was scanned or not at the time of implanting.[/quote]

As far as I know I have scanned every animal before I have implanted a chip, but I could have missed one. Were both chips in the 'conventional' site? (I take that to mean middle third of neck on LHS). I don't scan the whole horse!

Re: Double microchip?

An On MRCVS — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 20:36:23 GMT

Original anon here - in reply to Mr Woodhouse;

The regulations do not require a sketch, only a chip. Most of the ones I have done recently have been 'microchip only'. I hate drawing horses.

Yep, I realise the regulations don't need a sketch, and I agree that drawing them is rubbish, but thats not the real problem - all the horses have been identified as being the wrong colour, which according to the passport agency is an issue.

What if the old chip was unreadable (either by the other vet's machine, or a sporadic failure), and they scanned the horse and in all innocence implanted another.

Which is why I'm trying to contact the previous vet to clarify whether it was scanned or not at the time of implanting.

If it was me I'd annotate the passport to the effect that the horse has 2 chips. So long as one matches the passport not sure there is any sort of issue.

That's what I suspected, thank you.

So long as we're not looking at top class racehorse here.

Oh, DEFINITELY not!

Re: Double microchip?

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 19:14:38 GMT

The regulations do not require a sketch, only a chip. Most of the ones I have done recently have been 'microchip only'. I hate drawing horses.

What if the old chip was unreadable (either by the other vet's machine, or a sporadic failure), and they scanned the horse and in all innocence implanted another.

If it was me I'd annotate the passport to the effect that the horse has 2 chips. So long as one matches the passport not sure there is any sort of issue.

So long as we're not looking at top class racehorse here.