Routine worming.

Re: Routine worming.

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:43:56 GMT

[quote user="plantagenet"]Surely the number of worms never put under the selective pressure of the wormer would make resistance unlikely. [/quote]

I was going to say exactly that. Only in an extreme pack situation can I see it being even vaguely a risk.

We go every 3 months as 'standard' but cats that hunt a lot may need doing monthly to stop tapeworm segments appearing.

Re: Routine worming.

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:40:29 GMT

Two points

Firstly What would those of you who advise 3 monthly wprming say if a client who had religously followed ypur advice had a child blinded in 1 eye

Secondly I'm not keen on the current advice to only worm horses if eggs are found I'mnot aware that resistance has ever been recorded to the ivermectin group,and also I strongly suspect the impetus for the change (like with vaccination intervals) comes from those too young to remember the bad old days

Horses now are expected to live,and live healthily and happily intotheir twenties I can remember when a 14/15 year old horse was considered aged-and it was very difficult to keep weight on them If you read the literatue from some of the 3rd world equine charities they will say that that is stilltrue-and worming is one of the biggest factors in increasing longevity

I was already a veterinary student when panacur came out-and for the 1st time ever it was possibly to kill immature redworm before they emerged Before that worming was advised monthly-together with mixed species grazing in order to lessen the number of eggs shed on the pasture-but nothing could be done to kill immatures-so the damage tothe gut wall was already done If we change to only worming horses after eggs are seen then will we find in another 15 years or so that 15 year old horses are again considered aged

From people agonising over theoretical risks when they have no experience of actual problems may the Good Lord deliver us

Wynne

Re: Routine worming.

Bob Russell — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:26:58 GMT

I would consider the severity of possible clinical signs in man would make routine treatment of pets a requirement rather than rely on the vagaries of leaving them untreated until a faecal sample tests positive for worm eggs!

We do recommend three monthly worming with Milbemax but suggest high risk pets (young children etc) use a cheap and cheerful Drontal copy monthly

Re: Routine worming.

plantagenet — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:08:00 GMT

Surely the number of worms never put under the selective pressure of the wormer would make resistance unlikely. The horse and farm animal situation is different, since it tends to be most/all animals in a specific area that are being wormed. With SA clients that's never going to happen.

Re: Routine worming.

Virginia Campbell — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 21:55:46 GMT

[quote user="Charlotte Marshall"]

I have wondered in the past whether we are overworming dogs and cats (if our recommendations are complied with) and what the risks of resistance are. Especially after we started using routine testing on a couple of equine yards and only worming animals on the basis of that and found we needed to worm only a few of the animals.

[/quote]

I wondered this too; given that rotation of anthelminthic groups used to be very strongly advocated in large animals; and more recently strategic worming including leaving a few animals undosed. I suspect all the lax owners who don't bother worming their pets are actually doing the rest of the cat and dog population a favour by providing a source of roundworms that have never been exposed to anthelmintics, and therefore remain susceptible.

The most worming compliant clients I ever had were in Wales...everyone talked about "the video"...I think Welsh kids get shown a video in school detailing the effects of hydatid cysts in humans. "The video" was burned into their brains it seemed. Also, the farmers used to spectate whilst we took gid cysts out of sheep's brains and they were GREAT at worming their dogs (cysts most likely due to worms from tourist 'n' townie dogs....lots of public footpaths through the farms in the Welsh borders)

Re: Routine worming.

Charlotte Marshall — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 19:58:59 GMT

We usually advise monthly up to six months old and then three monthly. Having said that we have been promoting program plus for dogs recently which is monthly of course.

I also have not seen roundworm eggs in a submitted faeces sample. However to be fair most samples I submit for faecal testing are for ongoing diarrhoeas and they would have been wormed as a matter of course as part of the work up.

Re: Routine worming.

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 17:58:44 GMT

The fact that some owners won't do as they're told is no excuse for modifying advice to suit them That just makes it harder for those of us who are trying todo things properly

Wynne

Re: Routine worming.

Robin Grimmer — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 16:49:40 GMT

I voted 3 monthly, although I have heard it said that you need to do it monthly to completely eliminate Toxocara and that if everyone did this it would be virtually eradicated. But unfortunately there are too many people worming their dogs infrequently or not at all. I have heard some anecdotal evidence of Advocate failures for roundworms.

Re: Routine worming.

karen jones — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 16:40:55 GMT

We see much less gid in sheep since farmers stared using wormers including praziquantel, tapeworms still prevalent in sheep areas and there is always risk of hydatid cysts if worming isn't done routinely. Went to talk where they were suggesting 6 weekly tapeworm treatment best in dogs but difficult to get client compliance

Re: Routine worming.

Mark Holmes — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 16:02:36 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]

I had a surprise pregnancy in a yorkie cross, recently rehomed via a rescue, in an already interesting condition. I had prescribed advocate for her - good for lung worm, you know...and she had had a second dose by the time it was realised she was extremely pregnant. her pups were hooching with ascarids. And after receiving fenbendazole, it became apparent that so was she. In spite of 2 doses of advocate.

Since then i have lost a little faith

[/quote] Interesting. I ticked 3 months but I recommend Advocate for dogs and Stronghold for cats. If this is complied with I would advise a Milbemax dose every 12 months and every 3 months for cats that are heavy hunters. I was gaining enough confidence in Advocate to say that unless the dog was a scavenger/rabbit or rat killer it may not need worming separately - I may need to think again in the light of this. How often do I worm my own cats - perhaps slightly more often than I vaccinate them.....that will be not very often then.

[/quote]

Although advocate eliminates worms by causing paralysis rather than death. If dormant larvae are on the move in the pregnant bitch advoate might not be effective and hence the bitch and pups susceptible to worms.

Re: Routine worming.

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 15:46:10 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]

Since then i have lost a little faith

Re: Routine worming.

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 13:42:56 GMT

3 monthly isn't enough given the prepatent period of Toxocara

Wynne

Re: Routine worming.

plantagenet — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 13:05:28 GMT

We have had a bad roundworm problem in the village - adult dogs passing or vomiting worms on several occasions. We also have an unknown lungworm threat. current advice for adult dogs is a minimum of 3 monthly but with small children in house more often. We try and alert people to possible lungworm and some people are using this for 1-3 monthly. Cats every 3 months or more frequently if hunters.

We try to tailor advice to the individual which makes me sound like a cracked record every day but I don't think there is one definite answer.

Re: Routine worming.

Stephen Courtney — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 12:43:07 GMT

Animals on Advocate are recommended to have a top up wormer that includes a tape wrom cover, every 6 months. otherwise we recommend 3 monthly.

BUT....

I have never ever had worm eggs turn up in fecal samples from adult dogs

AND

Since then i have lost a little faith

Re: Routine worming.

Mark Holmes — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 12:41:46 GMT

In the last 12 months I don't recall a submitted faecal sample recording worm eggs.