Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Bob Russell — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 10:43:46 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Considering:

a) after neuterings, dentals are my commonest operations

and

b) how little is taught at uni

I think it appalling that of those who've answered 1/3 haven't done any dentalCPD

Wynne

[/quote]

I have to admit I am very surprised and disappointed that so few have done specific dental CPD. Dentistry can be very challenging and makes up a significant part of the workload of many vets. We owe it to our patients to do dentistry to at least an adequate standard and the training I received at college was decidedly lacking.

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 10:31:51 GMT

Considering:

a) after neuterings, dentals are my commonest operations

and

b) how little is taught at uni

I think it appalling that of those who've answered 1/3 haven't done any dentalCPD

Wynne

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Rachel Perry — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 00:02:55 GMT

If anyone in the northwest isn't busy this weekend, we have a BVDA CPD in Preston on Saturday. Lectures and wet-lab, full day of extraction techniques. See http://www.bvda.co.uk/continuing-professional-development where you can also book.

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Rajat — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 20:37:52 GMT

Hi Bob

Thanks for the links!

I think dentistry overall is a 'poorer' revenue generator than say surgery, as people generally charge less for it, but I am totally with you re the satisfaction. When people ask me why I like dentistry that's my number one reason! Also knowing you've provided a pain free mouth for that pet is very rewarding.

The toys are a bonus!

PS for anyone else wanting online dentistry links, dvm360.com has some excellent articles, and the RVC dentistry lectures are also online if you google RVC dentistry I think they are by Norman J

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:43:47 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Irritating voice but quite a lot of information in a very short clip[/quote]

The voice was OK but the music was like an itch you can't scratch!

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

bob lehner — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:07:33 GMT

One-day BVDA course on extractions - lots of hands-on experience with Staffie heads as previously mentioned. Excellent - money very well spent.

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 16:31:36 GMT

Just a reminder that certain people offer customised tuition in your own practice – customised to what you want, on your own equipment.

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Holly Norman — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 15:20:11 GMT

Had a couple of days of lectures from Norman Johnson in final year but no practical (2011 RVC). Best CPD I had was a day of lectures and wet lab at Dick Whites with Gerhard Putter for the bargain price of £30! Alas it didn't include cat teeth in the practical- apparently cat cadavers are very difficult to get hold of.

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Bob Russell — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 15:08:20 GMT

Dentistry can and should be a very good revenue generator. It should be done to a standard that makes you finish with that sense of satisfaction of a job well done!

These recent posts have made us review what we offer and the conclusion is that we have slipped a bit back into the bad old ways. There is a surprising amount of CPD on YouTube believe it or not! I have trawled through website after website 'researching' digital dental radiography and become a bit side tracked with some surprisingly useful stuff.

One I thought was quite good for clients was:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krxeFMkl7Vs

Irritating voice but quite a lot of information in a very short clip.

Also:

http://www.youtube.com/user/VeterinaryDentistry?feature=watch

OK to fill up an odd quiet moment at work!

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

James Laidlaw — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:48:42 GMT

Was also lucky enough to work with Cedric and have contact with specialists via email thanks to now having digital images making discussion easier. I graduated from Massey in 2003 and recall having one day of dental specific stuff in final year (2002). Not adequate to prepare for actually doing dentistry in practice, but then what is? I hadn't spayed a dog by the time I left either!

I think one of the biggest problems is that you learn how to do all sorts of things from the colleagues you work with. In the first few years there's so much to absorb that you aren't going to be proficient at everything, but if you are taught by people who have misplaced ideas or been taught inappropriate approaches themselves, then what? See recent posts in regards to snapping off crowns and suturing without x-rays for FORL's and the ongoing polishing debate which, while heated, probably has some merit on both sides - but which side are we to take, or do we let the specialists battle it out and then join the "accepted" side at the end of the debate? Medicine will always evolve, so we have to be open to change, I think the biggest issue with anything, not just dentals, is the stuff you are taught in the real world by colleagues - especially if it's not altogether appropriate, even if it appears to work!

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:02:34 GMT

Bristol 2012 - 2 days comprimising of a day of lectures (plus the odd lecture here and there in previous years) then a day of practical aspects - couldnt actually take radiographs as there wasnt a controlled area to do it, so just 'pretended' and did the positioning.

Wet lab was good, almost all the dog heads we had were staffies with healthy teeth... heavy going for the first extraction experience!

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Mark Frost — Sun, 21 Oct 2012 21:08:12 GMT

Bristol 2006 - I felt whilst the teaching was good there it was nowhere near enough, especially given the time spent on some other very specialist subjects.

I did a 2 day CPD solutions course (including practicals) with Alex Smithson a few years ago and it was probably the course that has made the most difference (in a positive way) to my day to day work - and I highly recommend it whenever I get the chance.

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sun, 21 Oct 2012 17:53:30 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

Cambridge (2008) 2 days practical 2 days lectures with J Robinson and friends, more than adequate. Seems rather odd to dismiss uni teaching, without, well, having any real idea of the true nature, or putting 'wagers' on it, no?

Another example of...

[/quote]

Thank you for the information on Cambridge. I hope most of the students intending to go into small animal work did take in the teaching.

Yes, I was too grumpy, I admit, and I regret that. I'm not letting the veterinary schools off completely, though.

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Cat Henstridge — Sun, 21 Oct 2012 14:55:51 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

[quote user="Cat Henstridge"]

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Probably need to update, any hints as to good practical and affordable (some cpd is prohibitively expensive for a locum !) cpd? [/quote]

We've got a day on 20th November with Jon Robinson BDS, only £250+vat and in Walsall, so not too far from you! http://www.vcpd.co.uk/courses.php

[/quote]

Only ? ! , as a self-employed locum missing a days work, double that amount, becomes an expensive day.

Seriously. it looks like it would be a good and useful thing to do though.

[/quote]

Have you seen the prices the bigger CPD companies charge recently?!

Actually, my experiences of trying to find affordable CPD as a locum was one of the reasons why we thought about starting up vCPD, although I confess I mainly did the free stuff!

Let me know if you fancy coming, it would be great to finally meet a VS member in person!

Cat

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Clive Ansell — Sun, 21 Oct 2012 11:51:12 GMT

[quote user="Cat Henstridge"]

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Probably need to update, any hints as to good practical and affordable (some cpd is prohibitively expensive for a locum !) cpd? [/quote]

We've got a day on 20th November with Jon Robinson BDS, only £250+vat and in Walsall, so not too far from you! http://www.vcpd.co.uk/courses.php

[/quote]

Only ? ! , as a self-employed locum missing a days work, double that amount, becomes an expensive day.

Seriously. it looks like it would be a good and useful thing to do though.

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Clive Ansell — Sun, 21 Oct 2012 11:41:12 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Undergraduate training next to useless, all of 3-4 hours airtime out of a 5 year course.[/quote]

Interested to know, which vet school, when?

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Worst example I have seen was a low cost clinic offering cat dentals for £45 (includes 5 days onsior and antirobe!) in an allocated 15 minute time slot, often carried out by untrained nurses in unintubated patients on top of the body freezer less than 2 meters away from the op table where "clean" ops were being done simultaneously..[/quote]

See worra mean about Type 2 veterinary surgeons. That sort of "dental" would be better for the patient if not done at all. But of course then the proprietor would not get the 45 quid.

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Probably need to update, any hints as to good practical and affordable (some cpd is prohibitively expensive for a locum !) cpd?[/quote]

Join BVDA?

[/quote]

Liverpool 1996.

The 45 quid is really £37.50 + vat, must almost be a money losing exercise? The only way it can pay is high volume, stack'em high do'em cheap

will seriously look at joining the BVDA, thanks

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

David Mills — Sun, 21 Oct 2012 00:56:06 GMT

Another example of...

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 23:24:44 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Shame on RVC. [/quote]

As I recall we had Norman Johnson for 2 days in final year @ RVC (2006 grad). Don't recall any practical work.

[/quote]

Well, tiny apology to RVC then. But what's the point of a dentistry course without practical? I'll lay RVC didn't put on any practical because they didn't want to pay for it / couldn't be bothered.

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 22:12:59 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Shame on RVC. [/quote]

As I recall we had Norman Johnson for 2 days in final year @ RVC (2006 grad). Don't recall any practical work.

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Nicola Lawlor — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 21:01:32 GMT

We had a brilliant day in clinic with Cedric Tutt. We booked some dental cases in for him to help us work through and had a lot of talking and some "lecture" style learning too. It meant our nurses also got to learn a lot about what to discuss with clients and also things like keeping the dental kit in top working order etc. It was cost effective learning for the practice and multiple practice members were able to be involved. Our dental work has since improved significantly, though I have no doubt we still have plenty more to learn.

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 20:15:19 GMT

[quote user="tess"] I'm guessing that beacaue the vet schools don't see a lot of referral dental cases there is little oportunity to teach it. I wasn't given any chance to do practical dentistry at uni- not even on a cadaver.[/quote]

That'a because in veterinary school staff there is precisely zilch knowledge of small animal dentistry.

(Well, Liverpool is an exception in that the head radiographer knows and teaches dental radiography).

BVDA offer the vet schools a concentrated 2-3 day progamme of introduction to small animal dentistry, lectures and practical, ridiculously cheap. (The lecturers work for peanuts and even then it's very much subsidised by BVDA) As anyone from Bristol or Liverpool qualified in the last twelve years or so will know. Norman Johnston does something in the Scottish schools. Nottingham has Alex Smithson. Cambridge does a bit, I'm not sure what.

Shame on RVC.

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Busybee — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 19:43:36 GMT

[quote user="tess"]It would be interesting to hear from recent graduates as to what they were taught[/quote]

RVC 2010 - 1 day of lectures. No practical. I did a weekend dentistry course last year which was really good, but even this couldn't cover anything - no cat practical experience!

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

tess — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 19:35:24 GMT

It's a real shame that dentistry seems to be largely ignored as part of the undergraduate course, as it plays such a big part of general practice. I'm guessing that beacaue the vet schools don't see a lot of referral dental cases there is little oportunity to teach it. I wasn't given any chance to do practical dentistry at uni- not even on a cadaver.

It would be interesting to hear from recent graduates as to what they were taught.

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Joyce Whitehead — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 17:18:40 GMT

I did an animal care sponsored course a year or two ago with Jon Robinson and it was brilliant. Really excellent tuition and practicals, which means I no longer dread extraction of large teeth. My undergraduate training was negligible too - from what I can remember that is! (Glasgow 83 graduate).

Re: Small animal dentistry CPD experience

Cat Henstridge — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 17:04:30 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Probably need to update, any hints as to good practical and affordable (some cpd is prohibitively expensive for a locum !) cpd? [/quote]

We've got a day on 20th November with Jon Robinson BDS, only £250+vat and in Walsall, so not too far from you! http://www.vcpd.co.uk/courses.php

I'm really looking forward to it, I definitely need to brush up () on my dental skills!

Cat