Any Ideas?

Re: Any Ideas?

Malcolm Ness — Sat, 13 Oct 2012 09:03:02 GMT

[quote user="james herriot lied"]Noooooooo. Just wondering what the countryside was like round there, and whether they'd met the queen. [/quote]

Can dogs get ill from meeting the Queen???

Re: Any Ideas?

Bob Russell — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 15:22:23 GMT

We have seen 'disorders' similar to that described by AHT in the New Forest for years so I have a degree of scepticism as to whether it is a a true condition.

A pretty unlikely suggestion for flaccid paralysis would be botulism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2942055/

Pretty unlikely and recovery seems too rapid.

I briefly worked in a lab studying botulism hence it springing to mind! Poorly manufactured tinned pet food has been a source of the toxin but European canning processes are pretty reliable.

Re: Any Ideas?

james herriot lied — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 14:54:52 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]

[quote user="james herriot lied"]

Complete long shot in the pitch black, but any woodland walking? Anywhere near sherwood or Thetford / Sandringham?

[/quote]

Ah, Seasonal Canine Illness, y'think? AHT's doing a study on it...

[/quote]

Noooooooo. Just wondering what the countryside was like round there, and whether they'd met the queen. I ask everybody the same question.

Not sure how this seasonal disorder thing is going to pan out, anyway, but I'm sure we see some very weird and wonderful fungal stuff around this time of year. I always get a bronchitis (asthmatic) which is thought to be from all the spores, and at least one colleague has had weird neuro signs definitively linked to fungal disease.

My gut feeling also does point towards TBF-type disease, and given the inclement weather, even algae. Spontaneous recovery from paresis is definitely flashing toxicosis at me

Re: Any Ideas?

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 14:45:49 GMT

[quote user="james herriot lied"]

Complete long shot in the pitch black, but any woodland walking? Anywhere near sherwood or Thetford / Sandringham?

[/quote]

Ah, Seasonal Canine Illness, y'think? AHT's doing a study on it...

Re: Any Ideas?

Claire Godfrey — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 14:11:18 GMT

Neither dog really looked sick, just unable to stand! both wagging tail and very bright and alert.

Both dogs from lancashire, first one definately not been to the woods, not so certain about the second! Hadn't been that day anyway.

Re: Any Ideas?

patrick murphy — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 13:48:18 GMT

I am nowhere near the east coast, but I have seen 2 cases that were exactly like the ones described, and despite thorough work ups, even including outside labs, have found nothein, but fluids work amazing over a day or 2, and these dogs really look sick.

Re: Any Ideas?

james herriot lied — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 13:20:20 GMT

Complete long shot in the pitch black, but any woodland walking? Anywhere near sherwood or Thetford / Sandringham?

Re: Any Ideas?

Claire Godfrey — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 12:12:05 GMT

I honestly think they probably resolved spontaneously but didn't dare withold treatment from the second case in case I had helped

Re: Any Ideas?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 09:49:19 GMT

Weird I can't even pretend to help with a diagnosis, but either they got better spontaneously or you've stumbled on both a new disease and the cure simultaneously Good luck if you have any more

Wynne

Re: Any Ideas?

Claire Godfrey — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 16:21:33 GMT

Just seen another dog with very similar problem, this time a 4 year old female entire labrador, this dog had Diarrhoea for 4 days and vomitting for 2 days but remained bright and well. Suddenly last night unable to stand. Once again right sided problem, if I stood dog up right legs both could not support weight but was able to weight bear on left side. Completely normal mentally, very bright. Temp 39.2, gave steroids and antibiotics, bouncing 24 hours later.

The dogs do not live in the same area, seen in different branches about 15miles apart.

Re: Any Ideas?

Stephen Courtney — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 22:02:54 GMT

Myasthenia gravis? Consider a tensilon test, or do the antibody blood test, also would wonder about some form of GME given the breed.

Just a thought, i get a few of these come my way but often frustrating!

Re: Any Ideas?

Claire Godfrey — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 19:36:28 GMT

Thank you,

It took about 1.5 hours from when the owners first noticed the paw lifting to when she was unable to stand.

The dog appearred flaccid as I could lift her so her feet were touching the ground but she would not support any weight. As soon as I let go she just slumped, but was definately able to move all legs.She would attempt to stand when her owners called but gave up quickly.

She did not seem un coordinated at all and could wave all legs in the air when wanting her tummy tickled.

Did run biochemistry but was completely normal.

She has improved very much currently and I am hoping not to have a repeat so probably won't do any more of a work up.But owners are aware if ddoes have a repeat episode will be more thorough.

Owner is a paramedic! wanted a bit of an answer but think this morning he is now just relieved she is ok.

Thanks

Re: Any Ideas?

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 14:17:29 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]

In Australia yes, in the UK?

[/quote]

I suppose you're right - I just got caught out with a tick borne disease not long after graduation and so I've been a bit tick-happy ever since! :)

Re: Any Ideas?

Mark Lowrie — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 12:45:10 GMT

Hi Claire, you mention that he problem started with lifting of the front leg and then progressed to all four legs – over what time scale was this?

When the dog walks you mention it was stiff but did it look uncoordinated or drunk at all?

It sounds like there has been a marked improvement and I wonder if the dog was reluctant to walk/stand rather than having an inability to stand – perhaps secondary to pain of identified origin? I know my dog stops walking and looks collapsed at the slightest thing convincing me she has broken her neck! The normal proprioception also suggests a non-neurological cause. However, you mentioned the dog had a sudden onset flaccidity – do you mean it was floppy? Did you check the reflexes during this time? A flaccid paralysis is almost always due to neuromuscular disease and in this country (I assume you are UK based) I can’t think of any diseases that would cause such an acute onset with quick resolution. Though as Mark says, in the US or Australia tick paralysis would certainly be a possibility. If the dog is still abnormal in anyway a video may help so feel free to post one here if so.

As the dog is improving, hopefully you won’t need a diagnosis though given all four legs were involved and if the owner wants more work-up then biochemistry and spinal radiographs of the skull base to T3 may be sensible to rule-out diseases that are sometimes seen in YRTs e.g. portosystemic shunt, atlanto-axial instability.

Re: Any Ideas?

Mark Holmes — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 12:43:58 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]

Tick paralysis would come to mind; if a tick bit and then fell off/taken off, then flaccidity can resolve in a few hours. Supportive treatment does tend to work.

[/quote]

In Australia yes, in the UK?

Re: Any Ideas?

Andrew Mellor — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 11:12:37 GMT

Could be (steroid responsive) menigioencephalitis , I would x-ray neck and get CSF sample.

Re: Any Ideas?

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 11:10:34 GMT

Tick paralysis would come to mind; if a tick bit and then fell off/taken off, then flaccidity can resolve in a few hours. Supportive treatment does tend to work.