Tail Docking Older Sheep

Re: Tail Docking Older Sheep

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 22:10:21 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Veterinary undercharging again -sigh.................[/quote]

Yup - I wasted a good hour on this and never charged anyone a penny!

Anyway - you'll be pleased to know he's going to leave the tails alone. He will reassess and if he has problems rubber ring next years lambs at 24 hours old.

Thanks for people's help.

Re: Tail Docking Older Sheep

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:57:10 GMT

Actually a phone call to Prof Con is a good idea Record the advice,and the name of the person giving the advice-so even if they say "don't know" it's on record that you've tried to find out Also tell the farmer toask his solicitor about the legal aspects-he may find paying you todothe job cheaper than paying a solicitor toanswer the question

Veterinary undercharging again -sigh.................

Wynne

Re: Tail Docking Older Sheep

James Laidlaw — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:52:04 GMT

I worked on a sheep and beef farm in NZ during my final few years at uni - and they docked with a hot iron there. Full of all the knowledge I am now I would probably not agree with it any more!!! I think it would class as an act of veterinary surgery - docking dogs and dewclaw surgery aren't entering body cavities, so would assume that any docking should be done by a vet - but then large and small animal practice does vary quite considerably with the rules and regulations. Maybe someone at RCVS could clarify for you?

Why are they wanting to dock? I feel the need at home was preventing flystrike, which I think is a management issue once the flock becomes so large that you can't monitor individual animals so docking is seen as an improvement of welfare by preventing flystrike, when maybe smaller flocks or better parasite control and feeding would minimise diarrhoea and then reduce dags/dirty bums... Would be a weird time of year here and now to carry this out - and if they are older and made it this far, why dock now? All the once I'd seen done at home were lambs.

Tough these issues when you look for info and can't find any and are often left to make your own decision and then hung out to dry if you get it wrong!

Re: Tail Docking Older Sheep

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:37:07 GMT

David and Wynne, thanks.

I did a bit more digging and can't find anything that would make the act of them doing it illegal, so some local anaesthetic and NSAID might be ok.

I think I'll suggest to them to leave the tails and see what happens. If they are been watched by Trading Standards they might want me to do them and I don't particularly want to go off and dock 100+ lambs. I will if necessary.

I was hoping the AWA would have the answers but a lot of it is written in a very vague way.

Re: Tail Docking Older Sheep

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 08:57:58 GMT

In an older sheep I very much doubt if the definition minor would apply-on the other hand it doesn't involve entering a body cavity-so actually I don't know whether it's legalfor the farmer to perform Certainly it's illegal without adequate pain relief-which I would say needs to continue at least (maybe more) than a week later

Wynne

Re: Tail Docking Older Sheep

David Mills — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 00:52:55 GMT

Pretty sure he'd be caught out by Agriculture (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1968, Provision 1 (a) namely:

"Any person who causes unnecessary pain or unnecessary distress to any livestock for the time being situated on agricultural land and under his control or permits any such livestock to suffer any such pain or distress of which he knows or may reasonably be expected to know shall be guilty of an offence under this section."

I think docking tails by any reasonable measure is painful, and unecessarily so if anaesthetic is available.

The section to which you refer in the Anaesthetics Act is to cover things such as foot trimming, ear notching and branding (along with section 7); it has since been modified by The Miscellaneous Provisions act: see text box undernath it at:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/2-3/46/schedule/FIRST

Also there's a case to be made in the unnecessary suffering section of the AWA, namely in the questionable benefit compared to the suffering endured.

If he really wants it done could you not epidural them and do them yourself? some longacting like mixing lidocaine and xylazine to give longer pain releif?

Re: Tail Docking Older Sheep

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 18 Sep 2012 22:51:25 GMT

Rach, thanks very much for the link.

All it tells me is that he can't use a rubber ring on them!

In the Animals Aneasthetics Act it states:

Any minor operation, whether performed by a veterinary surgeon or veterinary practitioner or by some other person, being an operation which is not customarily performed only by such a surgeon or practitioner.

Re: Tail Docking Older Sheep

Rach — Tue, 18 Sep 2012 22:33:33 GMT

Page 14 of the welfare code seems to give the relevant legislation in the coloured box http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/pb5162-sheep-041028.pdf