Vomiting Budgie

Re: Vomiting Budgie

Anonymous — Sun, 29 Sep 2013 21:04:32 GMT

I would be adopting a more staged approach if I saw a case like this. Firstly the budgie is well so there are ways to run some diagnostics without being too invasive. Take some faecal samples first. Labs like PALS will be able to identify Macrorhabdus on a faecal smear. If that is the diagnosis then you have something to treat (although that is difficult, you will likely need to use amphoteracin as a long course). If negative I would start on probiotics in the water (something like avipro) and monitor the bird. If symptoms persist, I would generally hospitalise the bird, get crop samples and then treat in the hospital for about 7days with flagyl orally by gavage tube. I wouldn't go doing crop samples if I were you at this stage especially if you have not done so before and the bird is clinically silent. I would get the faecal sample, monitor it's progress and do more if the symptoms return or the clinical picture.... Hi there, I have a similar problem, a regurgitating budgie. The owner did not notice that he was regurgitating but his feathers are wet and he was regurgitating a lot after the crop smear as well. The crop smear was fairly unexciting to me. He is rather skinny and sleeping a lot. Should I hospitalize him also and administer metronidazole until I find something in his crop smear? Also: for future cases : are nystatin and Amphocitercin B(sorry for spelling) expensive? What brand do Zoological vets use? Looking forward to a reply, Denise

Re: Vomiting Budgie

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 11:46:40 GMT

[quote user="pjmontgo"]he does chew a little off the perch which has sandpaper on it[/quote]

tell them to remove these sandpaper covers - lethal to their feet! (For the owners, I compare it to walking round with sandpaper insoles!)

Re: Vomiting Budgie

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 19:03:47 GMT

[quote user="pjmontgo"]If I dont have a gauvage tube would a small spruels needle do? Just trying to save buying something Im unlikely to get alot of use out of.[/quote]

I guess, if you're careful. But any old bit of rubber tube that fits on a syringe would be better. Or drip tube if you must, but that's too hard and sharp to my mind.

Re: Vomiting Budgie

pjmontgo — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 18:23:48 GMT

If I dont have a gauvage tube would a small spruels needle do? Just trying to save buying something Im unlikely to get alot of use out of.

Re: Vomiting Budgie

Mark Hedberg — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 18:06:44 GMT

If you hold the budgie in your hand, with the head between thumb and forefinger, it can be held very still with minimal force. Sorry I don't have a budgie 'to hand' to show a picture.

(http://img2.photographersdirect.com/img/19309/wm/pd2029600.jpg is not my picture but this is the idea.)

Re: Vomiting Budgie

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 17:50:54 GMT

[quote user="pjmontgo"]can i get the owners to syringe it in to his mouth?[/quote]

I would not have thought so.

Re: Vomiting Budgie

pjmontgo — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 17:47:25 GMT

Do I need to tube this or can i get the owners to syringe it in to his mouth?

Im not sure how confident I would be about tubing a wriggly budgie!

Re: Vomiting Budgie

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 16:47:32 GMT

[quote user="pjmontgo"]

The lab have found trichomonas on a smear... What is the treatment for this in budgies? Im glad i have a diagnosis but not sure what to do with it!

[/quote]

Still metronidazole as far as I know. 50 mg/kg per os (crop tube) daily for 7 days. Some say a single dose is sufficient. You choose.

We used to use Emtryl (dimetridazole) but I rather think it is no longer available.

Re: Vomiting Budgie

pjmontgo — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 16:37:14 GMT

The lab have found trichomonas on a smear... What is the treatment for this in budgies? Im glad i have a diagnosis but not sure what to do with it!

Thanks in anticipation

Re: Vomiting Budgie

pjmontgo — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 17:12:25 GMT

Yes the budgie was bright when I saw it, the owners reported it was quiet on tuesday but otherwise has been fine, they dont have any grit in with the bird so i dont know if this might be causing a problem, he does chew a little off the perch which has sandpaper on it. seems to be being fed a good seed mix. will recommend the smears are sent off.

Re: Vomiting Budgie

Mark Rowland — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 17:01:46 GMT

Send your samples. Is the budgie still bright?

Re: Vomiting Budgie

pjmontgo — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 16:59:25 GMT

Thanks for the reply Mark, I saw the budgie again today. Have started it on Avipro but the owner reported that this made him sleepy, the bird produced some material again today and the owners brought it in. He is producing the material on to his mirror and I have made a smear of this material and a smear of some fresh faecal material. Have had a look but my cytology is not great, i think i can just see lots of bacteria on the slime from the mirror. I might have to send them off to be certain what is on them. Is there any chance this could be behavioural?

Re: Vomiting Budgie

james herriot lied — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 23:32:50 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]

I wouldn't go doing crop samples if I were you at this stage especially if you have not done so before and the bird is clinically silent.

[/quote]

I have absolutely no idea which of you and Marie is correct here, Mark (probably both and neither, IYSWIM), but you have to admit - that was a beautiful explanation by Marie of how to do a crop swab. I almost want to see a bird tomorrow just so's I can have a bash at it (the practice's bird 'expert' is away all week, so we've been putting off beak trims and other delights till next Monday).

I also don't have a smartphone, having just traded in my 10 year old Nokia for a very cheap mobile, so your apps are still out of my reach. I'll have to buy you a pint should we ever meet up, instead.

Re: Vomiting Budgie

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 18:49:25 GMT

[quote user="Rajat"]Gillian quite right I wouldn't tell ppl to do the same with a cat but like Marie said there is convenia for those crazy kitties ;) I only recommend baytril in water when when owner cannot handle said bird .. for me it's no life for a 'pet' to be in a cage and after 10 years the owner can't even handle it... hey ho![/quote]

I agree - people who own birds should be interacting with their pet - that is why I will not do wing clips without a very good reason and why I will ensure the patient receives the best medication - even if that means hospitalising it for meds.

Baytril in their water is pointless and if they are sick and require antibiosis, but the owner refuses to administer it directly, euthanasia would be a better option for its welfare.

Come to think about it, I euthanase a significant amount of my small avian and reptile patients because the owner is unable to either afford or carry out the required diagnostics and/or treatment!!!

Re: Vomiting Budgie

Mark Rowland — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:26:31 GMT

I would be adopting a more staged approach if I saw a case like this. Firstly the budgie is well so there are ways to run some diagnostics without being too invasive. Take some faecal samples first. Labs like PALS will be able to identify Macrorhabdus on a faecal smear. If that is the diagnosis then you have something to treat (although that is difficult, you will likely need to use amphoteracin as a long course). If negative I would start on probiotics in the water (something like avipro) and monitor the bird. If symptoms persist, I would generally hospitalise the bird, get crop samples and then treat in the hospital for about 7days with flagyl orally by gavage tube. I wouldn't go doing crop samples if I were you at this stage especially if you have not done so before and the bird is clinically silent. I would get the faecal sample, monitor it's progress and do more if the symptoms return or the clinical picture changes. Re treatment of these birds, we regularly hospitalise them for 1 to 2 weeks at a discounted rate so we can administer meds if the owners are unable to do so. My cpd website sells gavage tubes and a DVD on how to use them so if people are treating birds with any degree of regularity they should master gavage tubing. Hope this helps. I like others wonder if it has only happened twice in a long period of time if it is pathological at all but at least would run the faecal sample Goodluck

Re: Vomiting Budgie

Marie Kubiak — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 17:51:01 GMT

A crop swab is easy once you have done one! Hold budgie in one hand (hold using left hand if you're right handed) and insert large cotton tip swab into the lateral commisure of the beak on the bird's left side. Pass the swab across the mouth so it is touching the right wall of the pharynx and gently advance it down the oesophagus. No force is needed, it should move down freely and the angle created prevents you going straight down the trachea. Once in the crop you can feel the end of the swab through the skin over the ventral neck, just in front of the keel. Roll the swab against the crop wall to collect some cells and contents, withdraw and wipe material over several dry slides and also one which then will have warm saline added on top.

Examine the saline preparation first, leave the others to dry before staining with diff-quik or similar.

Trichomonas is easy - on a saline preparation nothing should move. If you have motile protozoa swimming round then this is abnormal and highly likely to be trichomonas.

Macrorhabdus are very long 'rods' (actually fungal pathogen) in appearance. I can't upload a pic from this computer but a google image search gives you lots of pretty pictures. They are MUCH bigger than bacteria so should stand out on a x40 magnification stained smear.

If you're used to doing cytology then looking at the bacterial populations is simple- there should be a mixture of rods, cocci and a few yeast cells. If you have one type of bacteria (or yeast) and very little else then you have an overgrowth of an opportunistic/primary pathogen.

Marie

Re: Vomiting Budgie

Rajat — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 17:47:31 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]Sorry, brought up by foreigners so have slightly odd vocabulary [/quote]

It's not odd at all ! It's English after all so no need to apologise- I just meant to highlight my ignorance of all things avian!

Thank you - for the advice on pilling

Gillian quite right I wouldn't tell ppl to do the same with a cat but like Marie said there is convenia for those crazy kitties ;) I only recommend baytril in water when when owner cannot handle said bird .. for me it's no life for a 'pet' to be in a cage and after 10 years the owner can't even handle it... hey ho!

Cheers

Raj

Re: Vomiting Budgie

pjmontgo — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 17:41:24 GMT

Also... What treatment would I be giving if it had any of the afore mentioned problems?

The owner reports the budgie has not been sick again, is slightly quiet and is happily drinking his water with the baytril in! Still chirping away.

Re: Vomiting Budgie

pjmontgo — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 17:20:14 GMT

'Predominance of one type or any Macrorhabdus or trichomonas is atypical.'

Im not sure what i would be looking for! Would these be obvious and what would they look like?

Also have never performed a crop swab before so unsure of how we would do that

Any advice appreciated

Re: Vomiting Budgie

Marie Kubiak — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 19:47:01 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

You have to approach it in the same way as 'I really can't medicate my cat'. Afterall, you wouldn't put meds in the cat's drinking bowl...would you?

[/quote]

If only we had convenia for exotics!!

Re: Vomiting Budgie

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 19:12:35 GMT

[quote user="Rajat"]Curious as to how we should recommend medicating them, some people say they cannot even handle their budgies let alone give meds via syringe...daily injections then?[/quote]

You have to approach it in the same way as 'I really can't medicate my cat'. Afterall, you wouldn't put meds in the cat's drinking bowl...would you?

Re: Vomiting Budgie

Marie Kubiak — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:40:44 GMT

Could be if it is bringing food back up - from the description of phlegmy stuff it sounds like abnormal fluid to me

Re: Vomiting Budgie

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 14:32:35 GMT

This may shot down as a dumb suggestion but if the bird seems OK couldn't it just be regurgitating as a courtship display to its owner?

Re: Vomiting Budgie

Dagmar Steele — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 14:25:19 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]

[Dagmar - we don't have access to depot doxy in the UK, unless imported on a certificate for Chlamydophila positive birds.

Marie

[/quote] Sorry, I was blissfully unaware about that!

Re: Vomiting Budgie

Marie Kubiak — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 14:06:35 GMT

[quote user="Rajat"]

I had to google that, first time I have heard that term (xerophilous!)

Curious as to how we should recommend medicating them, some people say they cannot even handle their budgies let alone give meds via syringe...daily injections then?

[/quote]

Sorry, brought up by foreigners so have slightly odd vocabulary

I normally show the owners in the consult how to hold them and syringe meds directly and most are then happy to do so when they realise it's pretty simple and they won't get hurt. Larger birds are often easier as you can lace their food treats with meds and hand feed. We still get some people that flat out refuse and then they are offered hospitalisation (when costs of 24/7 hosp are clarified they can suddenly medicate them most times...).

Dagmar - we don't have access to depot doxy in the UK, unless imported on a certificate for Chlamydophila positive birds.

Marie