Fly-catcher dog

Re: Fly-catcher dog

David Mills — Thu, 13 Sep 2012 17:43:48 GMT

Our receptionist used to drive also before having her car crushed. Perhaps she just has a tame doctor.

Re: Fly-catcher dog

Bob Russell — Thu, 13 Sep 2012 17:40:24 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]How come she gets free tube and train travel?[/quote]

http://www.epilepsysociety.org.uk/AboutEpilepsy/Livingwithepilepsy/Whathelpisavailable

[/quote]

Thanks for the link and info! A brilliant idea that was not around in the days I had no driving licence. Fortunately I have had a full licence for many years now but I have to say it would have been a conciliation to have had free transport when I was a student!

Free prescriptions are a bit of a bonus! Otherwise epilepsy is a pain in the ar*e. I have to admit I am very lucky compared to many others with epilepsy!

Re: Fly-catcher dog

Rob Loxley — Thu, 13 Sep 2012 17:22:47 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]How come she gets free tube and train travel?[/quote]

http://www.epilepsysociety.org.uk/AboutEpilepsy/Livingwithepilepsy/Whathelpisavailable

Re: Fly-catcher dog

Gareth Dowdeswell — Thu, 13 Sep 2012 15:57:01 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

How come she gets free tube and train travel? Have I been missing something all these years? I get free prescriptions but have not heard of free travel!!

[/quote]

I think the reasoning is because of being unable to drive, though I'm not sure of the precise rules. I know someone who lost their licence due to epilepsy so was given free tube/bus travel to compensate for this, but only for 4 years from when they were diagnosed. They've now regained their licence as they've been fit free for a long enough period, so I don't think they'll be able to renew their free travel when it expires.

Re: Fly-catcher dog

Thomas Johnson — Thu, 13 Sep 2012 15:47:10 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

[quote user="David Mills"]

One of our mildly epileptic receptionists is on Tegretol and her vitamin D levels have just swung to 'dangerously low' levels so now she faces a few weeks of vitamin D whose therapeutic index is famously very narrow. On the upside, she gets free tube and train travel, and free prescriptions of any drugs, for life.

Considering dogs don't benefit from the latter...

[/quote]

How come she gets free tube and train travel? Have I been missing something all these years? I get free prescriptions but have not heard of free travel!!

[/quote]

My wife has epilepsy and gets a free bus pass as she is unable to learn to drive.

Re: Fly-catcher dog

Bob Russell — Wed, 12 Sep 2012 10:35:31 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

Considering dogs don't benefit from the latter...

[/quote]

How come she gets free tube and train travel? Have I been missing something all these years? I get free prescriptions but have not heard of free travel!!

Re: Fly-catcher dog

Mark Lowrie — Wed, 12 Sep 2012 10:27:00 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

this was recognised in King Charles spaniels and the treatment was with a drug called Tegretol

[/quote]

Tegretol (carbamazapine) is still used today for some movement disorders and unusual tremor syndromes in dogs. I think the reason it was used previously in CKCS was that fly-catching was identified in this breed concurrently with suspected Chiari-like malformation and so it was given to these individuals – it is used in humans for control of neuropathic pain and also as an anti-convulsant so it was hoped it may help CKCS through one or both of these actions. However, I think this is very much out-dated because the dogs in which it was anecdotally trialled didn’t do well.

It does certainly have a use in veterinary medicine with other conditions but it should be given cautiously and not as a first line medication.

Re: Fly-catcher dog

David Mills — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 22:36:32 GMT

Considering dogs don't benefit from the latter...

Re: Fly-catcher dog

Zoltan dr. Szabo — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 21:54:19 GMT

Thank you Mark, Anthony and Todd for your answers,

I've never met before this case. I'll try what Mark suggested, Spot /this is the name of the dog/ has to recover, I hope.

Thanks, again.

Bye, Zoli

Re: Fly-catcher dog

Bob Russell — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 17:57:03 GMT

There are all sorts of bizarre human behaviours such a Tourettes which are thought to be obsessive, compulsive disorders but seem to respond to some anticonvulsants. We used to use Tegretol years ago for epileptic dogs that were not good on Phenobarb. Not sure it ever worked well and seems to have fallen into disuse in dogs.

It can have some pretty nasty side effects in man!

Re: Fly-catcher dog

Anthony Todd — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 17:31:42 GMT

[quote user="Mark Lowrie"]I’m not sure I can be of too much help [/quote]

Me neither but I seem to recall this was recognised in King Charles spaniels and the treatment was with a drug called Tegretol, but that's all I recollect.....

Re: Fly-catcher dog

Mark Lowrie — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 16:28:36 GMT

I’m not sure I can be of too much help as these episodes are seen from time to time and nobody really understands what they might be.

They are probably best managed as partial seizures, or more specifically, a type of partial seizure called a psychomotor seizure. These types of seizure can involve running in circles, floor licking, tail-chasing, vocalisation, aggression etc etc, or, in this case, fly-catching.

Some have suggested they may also be a type of compulsive disorder. I have certainly seen dogs where this may well be the case but also seen others where a seizure disorder is more likely.

Practically, I would manage them as we would any dog with seizures – rule-out extra-cranial disease, particularly important in this young dog so I would ensure you have done a bile acid stimulation test. Following this then intra-cranial investigation is the next step (i.e. MRI).

I would discuss management of this condition with the owners – if it is not causing the dog a problem, i.e. if infrequent and mild, then I would just monitor. If it is frequent and severe then medication can be considered though I always warn that sometimes side-effects of medication can be worse then the signs of disease. I would start with phenobarbitone at a dose of 3 mg/kg BID. After 2 weeks you can check the therapeutic serum conc of this medication, if it is within the reference range and the episodes are controlled then great. If the serum concentration is low and the episodes are still frequent I would increase the dose and test again in 2 weeks. Some dogs do not respond to medication at all in which case I would then discontinue the phenobarbitone.

Sadly little is known about this condition and the cause(s). If you can do basic bloods and a phenobarbitone trial (if severe) then I think this would be an acceptable management. If this does not work then it maybe would suggest a compulsive disorder is more likely.