Ataxic Indian Runner Duck

Re: Ataxic Indian Runner Duck

KMurphy — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 22:08:13 GMT

Sorry, I was having a dizzy moment when I wrote that. I meant to ask what way to treat at that level, as in would oral treatment be sufficient. The owner may be able to inject, I'll have a chat with him tomorrow. If there are metal bits evident on xray, will these have to be dealt with surgically or would the chelation take care of things? I've never operated on a duck and I'm also off for two weeks from tomorrow so not sure how the locum would feel about it!

Re: Ataxic Indian Runner Duck

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 21:28:59 GMT

Pardon my confusion, I fail to understand the question - is there a lead level you wouldn't treat? Lead isn't a micronutrient, after all!

Re: Ataxic Indian Runner Duck

Mark Rowland — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 19:39:45 GMT

Well you have a clinical duck with a high lead level so I would treat. Get some rads to check nothing is in the GIT and I would go for EDTA myself (can the owner not inject if you showed them?)

Re: Ataxic Indian Runner Duck

KMurphy — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 15:23:56 GMT

Hi there,

I got the bloods taken for this duck and everything's come back normal except for the lead level which is 616micrograms/l, with a comment saying the toxic limit is >600. Looking in the farm pets book, it suggests treatment with edetate calcium disodium by injection or D-penicillamine orally and DMSA, though rather unhelpfully it doesn't give any doses.

Would you treat at this level? The dose I can find for DMSA is 25-35mg/kg PO 5d week for 3-5 weeks or D-penicillamine 55mg/kg BID for 1-2 weeks. It would be easier to treat orally rather than bring the duck in for repeat injections as she gets stressed travelling. Is one better than the other? I haven't been able to find either on my quick check of the Henry Schein database but can look harder if I know what I'm looking for!

Thanks,

Karen.

Re: Ataxic Indian Runner Duck

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 27 Aug 2012 15:07:16 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"] I agree botulism is less likely but mild cases may present in this way and later become progressive.[/quote]

Hm. I've learnt something today. I'd always thought of botulism as all-or-nothing as it were.

Would some quick radiographs be a good idea to look for obvious metal bits? Edit^ oops sorry that's been suggested^

Re: Ataxic Indian Runner Duck

Mark Rowland — Mon, 27 Aug 2012 13:37:31 GMT

Just because the symptoms are not classical, that doesn't mean that lead and botulism can be removed from the list. Lead would affect an individual bird ingesting heavy metals if free foraging. Send the blood to pinmoore animal labs for normals and a profile. Or post vetscan results and I will look for you. Best send the haem to an exotic pathologist and you will need to send away for lead anyway. I agree botulism is less likely but mild cases may present in this way and later become progressive.

Re: Ataxic Indian Runner Duck

Mark Rowland — Mon, 27 Aug 2012 13:30:58 GMT

Corticosteroids are profoundly immunosuppressive in birds, more so than other species. If any infectious process is going on or if there are opportunistic pathogens about e.g. Aspergillus app then the use of corticosteroids will likely result in a dead bird. From the top of my head 1 shot of short acting dex will floor a birds immune system for at least a week. I've seen birds referred to me terribly ill after a course of preds for feather picking. Hope this helps.

Re: Ataxic Indian Runner Duck

KMurphy — Mon, 27 Aug 2012 13:27:07 GMT

I had read about botulism and lead poisoning but neither seemed to fit. There is no wing droop that the book suggests you should see with botulism and the progression of the condition seems quite slow. Also, with lead poisoning, the book seemed to suggest dullness and green diarrhoea, neither of which are present. Also, would the other ducks not be similarly affected?

The ducks are fed a small amount of pelleted food, some mealworms and also allowed to forage in the garden. The pond that they have is quite small but is cleaned and drained regularly and the owner isn't aware of any algal bloom or change in the water quality.

I suppose Idexx can run duck blood tests or would my Vetscan be any use if I found the normal values elsewhere?

Re: Ataxic Indian Runner Duck

Clive Ansell — Mon, 27 Aug 2012 13:16:53 GMT

Why are corticosteroids contraindicated in birds, more so than in other species?

Re: Ataxic Indian Runner Duck

Mark Rowland — Mon, 27 Aug 2012 13:07:08 GMT

No steroids please. Lead poisoning and botulism spring to mind. Some bloods for a metabolic profile, lead levels and haematology would be a good start as would some radiographs to look for metallic things. Has anything changed with the pond recently such as dredging or algal blooms? What is fed to this duck what supplements if any? ( consider deficiencies also) Good luck.