Garlic tablets for dogs...

Re: Garlic tablets for dogs...

Utlendigur — Thu, 09 Aug 2012 20:00:11 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]We have had a busy week sorting out dogs and cats absolutely heaving with fleas! Most treated regularly with fipronil.[/quote]

Same here. Last one was two cats, frontlined monthly, house treated with acclaim twice a week apart, last frontline a week ago, no obvious breakdown like a stray cat - crawling with live fleas. Suggested re-treating house to deal with further fleas from pupal stages and swapping to stronghold or advocate. Owner declined stronghold/advocate because the frontline had only cost her 2/3 of the price over the internet - her solution? - to apply the frontline every two weeks (despite my advice not to) which would actually cost more than switching to Stronghold/Advocate and achieve sweet FA

Re: Garlic tablets for dogs...

Bob Russell — Thu, 09 Aug 2012 17:15:10 GMT

Not worried about Frontline - great stuff. We have had a busy week sorting out dogs and cats absolutely heaving with fleas! Most treated regularly with fipronil.

'But the pet shop told us this was the best product available', 'it was really expensive!', 'but we got it cheap on the internet!'.

Long may it continue!

Re: Garlic tablets for dogs...

Jo Cobbett — Thu, 09 Aug 2012 16:08:29 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

one of my daughters worked part-time in a supermarket when she was at school and used to tell the shoppers to put the Bob Martins back when they arrived at the check-out and at least get some Drontal or Frontline or better go to a vet and if they didn't want their cat to get urolithiasis put the Go Cat back and get some Iams/HIlls/Royal Canin. They offered her a managerial position after 2 weeks more probably because she was the only one in there with a brain rather than just get her off the till!

[/quote]

Good for her!

But don't get me started on Frontline in Tesco, one of my friends overheard a pharmacist, when asked by a customer how to use it, telling them "it's really easy, just pour it onto his food".

Re: Garlic tablets for dogs...

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 09 Aug 2012 15:50:55 GMT

[quote user="Jo Jones"]Does anyone else have an overwhelming urge to pull the Johnsons/Bob Martins/Shirley's products of the shelves in the supermarket and jump up and down on top of them shouting "don't use these, they don't work" at any passers by?! So far I've managed to restrain myself, but I've banned my other half from buying Bob Martins dog chews, we're on a boycott![/quote] Funny you should mention it but not quite: one of my daughters worked part-time in a supermarket when she was at school and used to tell the shoppers to put the Bob Martins back when they arrived at the check-out and at least get some Drontal or Frontline or better go to a vet and if they didn't want their cat to get urolithiasis put the Go Cat back and get some Iams/HIlls/Royal Canin. They offered her a managerial position after 2 weeks more probably because she was the only one in there with a brain rather than just get her off the till!

Re: Garlic tablets for dogs...

Tim Cheyne — Thu, 09 Aug 2012 15:11:51 GMT

[quote user="Jo Jones"]"don't use these, they don't work" [/quote]

Yes, I felt the same when I was doing some SA work and, of course. junk products occur with other species as well, but we cannot say that the like of Bob Martins sell junk products with no efficacy when they are marketing such as dichlorophen, fenbendazole, and now fipronil; all products that are or have been recommended and used by vets. The problem is that these products are not controlled, nor are they likely to be, and could be mis-used as have been medical products (e.g. Tagamet, Zantac, and in some countries, antibiotics).

Tim.

Re: Garlic tablets for dogs...

Jo Cobbett — Thu, 09 Aug 2012 11:19:19 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

The likes of Johnson's have been selling junk products for years in impressive packaging despite the obvious lack of efficacy in a large number of cases. All we can do is educate the general public (assuming the all-wise breeders have not already done so!) and pick up the pieces when. for example, the flea population explodes

[/quote]

Does anyone else have an overwhelming urge to pull the Johnsons/Bob Martins/Shirley's products of the shelves in the supermarket and jump up and down on top of them shouting "don't use these, they don't work" at any passers by?! So far I've managed to restrain myself, but I've banned my other half from buying Bob Martins dog chews, we're on a boycott!

Re: Garlic tablets for dogs...

Bob Russell — Wed, 08 Aug 2012 15:38:12 GMT

I suspect this is where the loophole is.

Trading standards are in charge of supervising fit for purpose aspects of purchases but will refer you to the VMD where medical claims are involved. The VMD seems to have little power or inclination to get involved with these products despite the pretty obvious medical claims.

I suspect the VMD budget is tiny compared to the sales of the snake-oil products that cram the shelves of pet shops, supermarkets, chemists etc (not to mention a few vets). These companies are pretty free to claim what they like with little chance of being stopped!

Re: Garlic tablets for dogs...

Kathryn Burton — Wed, 08 Aug 2012 14:01:33 GMT

Sadly her phone has gone to answerphone everytime I've tried to call her back :-)

I don't understand how Johnson's can write a load of nonsense on the packet of these tablets - I know they're not POM-V but surely can't hold up to trading standards?!

Re: Garlic tablets for dogs...

Charlotte Marshall — Wed, 08 Aug 2012 12:57:37 GMT

I rang VPIS about garlic ingestion in a rabbit and the cases they had to refer to were all in cats I seem to remember. I can't remember the details but I think there had been some cases causing anaemia and that is certainly what they told me to watch for.

I had a client in the other day who is giving garlic tablets to her dog because she thinks it is good for it's heart. I said you have to be careful giving garlic and it transpired another vet in the practice had told her it would not do any harm. Mind I don't think she is giving enough to cause problems.

Re: Garlic tablets for dogs...

Jo Cobbett — Tue, 07 Aug 2012 16:12:40 GMT

I've seen one case study (presented in a clin path class at uni) of a dog that presented with moderately severe anaemia, heinz bodies on smear, and it turned out it was on garlic supplementation, so 2+2 = garlic caused the anaemia?. When the supplements stopped the anaemia resolved. This was based on a real life case, but I've never seen it in the flesh.

Re: Garlic tablets for dogs...

James Laidlaw — Tue, 07 Aug 2012 15:00:30 GMT

Has the dog got any better on the garlic tablets? I would venture a guess that it hasn't.

Maybe show them info that garlic is actually toxic, and although they may not be giving enough to cause toxicity effects, it would be prudent to treat with something that actually works and do a proper skin work up rather than giving small amounts of a toxic substance that is going to have no clinical benefit.

Re: Garlic tablets for dogs...

Lorna McHardy — Mon, 06 Aug 2012 22:27:25 GMT

Swift google suggests you could be right

http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=174478

... on the other hand, has anyone ever actually seen a case of poisoning by garlic tablets? Loads of people feed their dogs the things in the mistaken belief they'll shift the flea problem. Surely we'd be seeing more cases?

[edit later]

Ok, I've checked some proper books, and I gather you should treat if the animal has ingested more than 0.5% of its body weight... that'll be why you can feed dogs these tablets with impunity. The Allium species that cause poisoning are onions, garlic, chives, and leeks; and neither cooking, processing, drying, nor spoiling lessen the toxic effect.... so you could well poison your dog if you give enough tablets.

It's not in the VPIS book, though, so maybe really not that common?

Re: Garlic tablets for dogs...

Mark Rowland — Mon, 06 Aug 2012 21:56:06 GMT

[quote user="K Burton"]

"Garlic Tablets for Dogs and Cats by Johnson's are contain garlic, a natural conditioner and cleanser with health benefits including good circulation and protection against illness. Garlic Tablets also increase reistance to ailments and are a natural repellent against flea and worm infestation."

[/quote]

The label forgot to mention the proven efficacy even in very small quantities against attack by Vampires. I believe it is even licensed for such use. It certainly works against Testudo transalvaniaris (the vampire tortoise).