ACP tablets

Re: ACP tablets

a.bardell — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 16:06:57 GMT

Piper methysticum is in the ceremonial drinks used by certain islanders when was drunk to induce hallucinatory effects. The result of long term, high level intake was that there seemed to be an above average level of liver disease reported. This led to the human herbalists to say it was dangerous to use orally in humans.

More recent research has shown that at sensible levels this is not actually the case. Unfortunately, as in most alternative medicines, it's only the adverse effects that you hear about.

The levels in calmex are low for dogs and cats- I would use higher doses for conditions other than anxiety quite happily in dogs.

Re: ACP tablets

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 17:35:01 GMT

We've had ACP tabs all along. Just the 10mg

Re: ACP tablets

Iain McAllister — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 17:26:17 GMT

Have ACP tablets come back as well as the injectable?

Re: ACP tablets

Glenn Hodgson — Tue, 17 Jul 2012 22:42:06 GMT

Andrew and Martin,

Thanks for the feedback. I have only recently started reading the forums and was unaware of the previous "calmex" thread. It made for interesting reading!

Kind regards

Re: ACP tablets

Andrew Kent — Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:32:47 GMT

The reason it was banned in people was because it proved impossible to find a safe dose as different people react differently. We don't have the information to say whether or not this may be true in dogs so why take the risk. The drug company will say that it is an authorised feed additive but if you look into this in more detail it is authorised as a taste additive not as a primary medication. Ultimately these supplements have limited evidence of effectiveness so why take the risk with one that may cause harm.

Re: ACP tablets

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:26:36 GMT

[quote user="Glenn Hodgson"]

I have had some really good responses with calmex to date. In one dog it was far more effective than diazepam. Are there currently concerns with its safety?

[/quote] Same here but it is still a bit unpredictable. The concerns related to Calmex are not so much to do directly with safety but the way it was marketed which some people believe was via the back door to circumvent rules on therapeutic agents. The active ingredient piper methysticum is reported to cause liver disease in humans and some psychotic episodes with repeated use but as Calmex is marketed as a target agent for individual specific incidents of stress rather than long term therapy I can't see there would be a problem in our patients. It would be interesting to hear from other members their experience after the ballyhoo on this forum previously.

Re: ACP tablets

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 23:58:24 GMT

[quote user="Lorna McHardy"]surely it's possible to desensitize this dog.[/quote]

You'd think this "summer".................

Re: ACP tablets

Lorna McHardy — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 23:37:49 GMT

[quote user="CatherineThomas"]

the owner complains that she is kept up all night when he is distressed by the rain.

[/quote]

Don't you just love owners and their priorities sometimes.

I still think a behavioural consultation with somebody qualified and experienced would be the way to go... surely it's possible to desensitize this dog.

Re: ACP tablets

James Laidlaw — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 20:46:33 GMT

What about adaptil? Or zylkene?

Re: ACP tablets

Andrew Kent — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 20:36:21 GMT

Yes. Active ingredient is banned in lots of places.

Re: ACP tablets

Glenn Hodgson — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 20:00:27 GMT

I have had some really good responses with calmex to date. In one dog it was far more effective than diazepam. Are there currently concerns with its safety?

Re: ACP tablets

David Mills — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 19:35:40 GMT

ACP are available from online retailers which might prevent you buying a whole tub - can even buy them in quantities of 1s (we've done this in similar circumstances as a tub rarely gets used) - google them. They are sedative, but can be used successfully in these types of things - most dogs take them and then fall asleep, so I wouldn't worry too much about their low grade use as described. You can combine them with tramadol (10mg/kg at least) at a decent dose to ensure sleep There was a thread on here a while ago about it all and how difficult it is to ascertain anxiolysis in animals. Xanax/diazepam are disinhibiting in animals and can unmask aggression and/or undesirable behaviours by reducing suppression of fear/promoting a bolder approach.

A salutary tale - I had an old springer who was aggressive towards strangers and very fearful of fireworks. Only ACP/tram would work, he would go very sleepy, and the only time he bit me was when he had xanax as a trial instead.

Some behaviourists recommend TCAs e.g. amitryptiline which are cheap (off cascade - clomicalm is v expensive) but take at least 2-3 weeks for effect and cannot be stopped suddenly. A recent systematic review of studies into pheromones showed that out of 14 studies only mild evidence existed for reduction of fear/anxiety during training in one study. The rest were inconclusive at best; they appear to be an expensive white elephant.

Re: ACP tablets

CatherineThomas — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 19:16:02 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

How about Calmex?

[/quote]

Have they proven that the calmex is safe yet? I haven't heard anything about it since all the noise about it when it first came out.

Re: ACP tablets

CatherineThomas — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:23:24 GMT

it's a little shih tzu and has half a 10mg tablet when needed. It's only when we have really heavy rain that he has it, the owner complains that she is kept up all night when he is distressed by the rain. It's taken him 6 months to get through 10 tablets. He was started on the ACP tablets years ago by one of the old vets. He has tried diazepam on a couple of occassions but the owner reports that he gets over amourous and harasses her female dog. Since our ACP tablets have run out I tried giving him xanax but the owner called to say that it caused the same problems as the diazepam and she wants a written prescription for the ACP. This seems like a good opportunity to swap him onto something more suitable, hence why I'm asking.

Re: ACP tablets

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:12:28 GMT

How about Calmex?

Re: ACP tablets

Lorna McHardy — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 11:47:17 GMT

In fact, the more I think about this one, the less I like it. How much ACP does she give this dog, anyway? And given that rain isn't right predictable, and that even if it were effective, ACP would take about half an hour to kick in.... does this poor creature spend its life in a state of anxiety? And how does it ever manage to get out for a walk without panicking? And what when it rains for days and days and days and days... does it just pee in the house instead?

Reassure me, I'm getting anxious myself now!!

Joking apart, I'm assuming you've suggested a visit to a good behaviourist?

Re: ACP tablets

Lorna McHardy — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 11:39:13 GMT

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that ACP is unsuitable for anxiety in any case... as I understand it, it does nothing to lessen the anxiety, just prevents the dog from expressing it.

Not heard about being over-amorous as a side-effect of xanax yet either... learnt something new! Maybe it's because the poor dog is finally relaxed enough to think about something other than rain. Ye gods, think about it... scared of rain! And this year!!

Maybe the owner should just move the cushions out of reach :0)