Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Julian Earl — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 17:05:36 GMT

There's a gaping hole in your logic James. 100 male cats, 100 females. Neuter 99 males and you can still have 100 litters; neuter 99 females and you can only have one litter...

plus a lot of cat fight abcesses of course.

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

James Laidlaw — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 06:55:15 GMT

One male let free can generate many more litters than a single female can. That's why I recommend neutering males.

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 00:20:57 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Moving on from the original question; I've never seen the point of sterilising males as part of a campaign to reduce the stray , feral or just plain unwanted population, anywhere. I've argued this with well-meaning RSPCA organisers, but they just don't get it.[/quote]

I don't routinely recommend neutering in males. Only if a problem. If we have testicular or prostate problems castrate them later.

Turn the question on its head - why do vets spay their own bitches? I did mine because she lives in the house, goes on the furniture and I didn't want her in season twice a year. Nowt to do with any health benefits, for convenience - just like almost all owners.

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Louise Cole — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 23:53:38 GMT

Only just found this post - sounds like 'Neutering: how early is too early' reported in Vet Record, April 28, 2012. doi: 10.1136/vr.e2953 - discussed at WSAVA / FECAVA/ BSAVA congress.

Lou

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Jo Cobbett — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:05:27 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]

[quote user="Jo Jones"]

I've only opened that one today too! The one I'm thinking of was more in depth than that, and definitely a few weeks ago at least. Thanks though!

[/quote]

I think I know the one you mean, can't remember where it was though, there was a comment from Gerry Polton on the increased risk of osteosarcomas in castrated rottweillers, and that it may outweigh the benefits of reduced risk of testicular tumours and prostate disease.

[/quote]

That sounds like the one I'm thinking of

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Thomas Johnson — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:33:05 GMT

[quote user="Jo Jones"]

I've only opened that one today too! The one I'm thinking of was more in depth than that, and definitely a few weeks ago at least. Thanks though!

[/quote]

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:50:05 GMT

[quote user="Rajat"]All this goes out of the window IMHO in Africa, India etc etc. Neuter the lot, there are far too many strays posing animal and zoonotic human health risks. I have been on spay neuter programmes and have seen first hand how big a problem it is (and what a marathon effort it is to try and neuter 80% of a stray dog population!!)[/quote]

Moving on from the original question; I've never seen the point of sterilising males as part of a campaign to reduce the stray , feral or just plain unwanted population, anywhere. I've argued this with well-meaning RSPCA organisers, but they just don't get it.

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Rajat — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:40:11 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]I think there's a link now between early neutering in male cats and femoral head necrosis, but not sure how early the neutering has to be or how proven the link is.

[/quote]

Do you mean capital physeal fractures (slipped femoral epiphyses)?

Increased incidence in males neutered prior to 6 months seemed likely

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.2002.221.1731

http://vet.sagepub.com/content/38/1/92.short

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

James Laidlaw — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:16:22 GMT

I think there's a link now between early neutering in male cats and femoral head necrosis, but not sure how early the neutering has to be or how proven the link is.

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Jo Cobbett — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:11:53 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

If you have any doubts about the wisdom of neutering-just spend 1 day with a re-homing charity overwhelmed by poor unwanted strays

Wynne

[/quote]

I don't have any doubts, I routinely recommend neutering to clients, but I like to be able to tell clients all the facts so they can make an informed decision, as I would when recommending any surgical procedure.

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Rajat — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:11:17 GMT

Another good review:

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Rajat — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:59:48 GMT

I work for a practice where we are the vets for a large RSPCA centre and am from a country with a huge stray population problem (India) so am not immune to the truths of your statements..I do think the matter is not as black and white as maybe I have percieved and and communicated for some time. Maybe it was just me, thinking that neutering is DEFINITELY the best thing for the pet. Now, I feel, neutering is PROBABLY the best thing for the pet and the society (people) but that transition from Definitely to Probably means I would want to give pet owners all the info as it develops in the literature (well not the whole shpiel, a condensed version rather or the consults would take forever!)

I think weighing up the risks and benefits of neutering in each species and respective breed along with their indoor/outdoor status, access to other intact dogs and cats (including potential accidental) and so on is worth doing prior to deciding on how strongly to recommend neutering.

All this goes out of the window IMHO in Africa, India etc etc. Neuter the lot, there are far too many strays posing animal and zoonotic human health risks. I have been on spay neuter programmes and have seen first hand how big a problem it is (and what a marathon effort it is to try and neuter 80% of a stray dog population!!)

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Alet Engelbrecht — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:44:36 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

If you have any doubts about the wisdom of neutering-just spend 1 day with a re-homing charity overwhelmed by poor unwanted strays

[/quote]

Completely agree. Or come to Africa (any country).

[quote user="Rajat"]If I was a private client I would prefer to know all the ins and outs and would like my vet to tell me re the evidence about some of the risks (long term) with neutering as outlined in some studies and not just the benefits, thats all. [/quote]

I am sceptical about the perceived higher risks of endocrine conditions and neoplasias. How many of these conditions are sequelae to e.g. obesity (a potential risk factor of neutering, which I try to address when admitting an animal for neutering and at every vaccination) or increased life expectancy. The real question I would like to be answered is: which group of animals live longer - neutered or entire?

I think the answer is straight forward in cats. Is it really that difficult in dogs? Not for me, but my perspective is skewed as in a developing country like South Africa (lots of unneutered animals) vs a developed country like the UK with a high uptake on neutering, there is no comparison. And for any study to be truly meaningful, the adult population of neutered vs entire should be close to 50:50, where ALL deaths over are taken into account (RTA's etc as well), not just extracts from general population.

Fact of the day: Hyperthyroidism has a higher incidence in neutered cats... anyone care to dispute? Should be now stop neutering cats?

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Rajat — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:06:27 GMT

Hannah you're right, I should have said 'top health reasons'. Also primarily in countries where stray population is minimal or zero.Otherwise animal welfare is far better served by neutering.

If I was a private client I would prefer to know all the ins and outs and would like my vet to tell me re the evidence about some of the risks (long term) with neutering as outlined in some studies and not just the benefits, thats all.

Best

Raj

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:24:41 GMT

If you have any doubts about the wisdom of neutering-just spend 1 day with a re-homing charity overwhelmed by poor unwanted strays

Wynne

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

CatherineThomas — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:42:29 GMT

what about this one:

Gonadectomy in cats and dogs: A review of Risks and Results. IM Reichler

Reprod Dom Anim 44 (suppl. 2) 29-35 (2009)

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Jo Cobbett — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:18:35 GMT

I don't think any of these are the one I was thinking of, but Raj's review has the same sort of information in it that I was after, thanks. Maybe I just dreamt about it!!

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Alet Engelbrecht — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:50:09 GMT

[quote user="Rajat"]Seems like prevention of pregnancy and pyometra and roaming are now the top reasons (in my mind ) to neuter and many adverse health effects from neutering exist...[/quote]

I don't know - some of the adverse health effects are quite wishy washy to me - 'Some studies reported an increased risk with neutering... however, other studies have found no such association...'

Obviously, something that needs a lot more concrete research (which I am following as it comes out), however, coming from a developing country, I firmly advocate neutering based on the very well known benefits.

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Rajat — Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:14:45 GMT

There was a good review published in CAB reviews. There is a summary available ( I don't have full text) by the same bloke who wrote it (he is actually a member of this site too)

Enclosing a link to it as cannot upload it (max file size 64kb?? who has files that small these days? )

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bx91qiJtLeKwZ2lFbUF1bFNkR0k

Seems like prevention of pregnancy and pyometra and roaming are now the top reasons (in my mind ) to neuter and many adverse health effects from neutering exist...

Best

Raj

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Claire Fisher — Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:55:01 GMT

This month's JSAP has a review of the links between neutering and mammary tumours and last month's had one about neutering and incontinence.

Can't find anything else on Pubmed but i don't think that would cover Companion or Vet Times.

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

James Laidlaw — Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:24:04 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]

There was an article in the Veterinary Times recently, Volume 42, Number 22, June 4 2012, p22. I'm a bit behind with my reading and only opened it today!

[/quote]

This is the most concise one I remember reading recently - was a single full page in vet times.

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Jo Cobbett — Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:21:00 GMT

I like to have figures to back up what I'm telling clients when they ask about neutering, and there were various on there about risks of eg osteosarcoma etc, as well as one or two things that I hadn't thought of in context of neutering before.

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:19:25 GMT

In all honesty Jo what do you need to know that you don't already know or isn't common sense?

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Jo Cobbett — Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:14:28 GMT

I've only opened that one today too! The one I'm thinking of was more in depth than that, and definitely a few weeks ago at least. Thanks though!

Re: Looking for a review I read recently on neutering...

Thomas Johnson — Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:57:09 GMT

There was an article in the Veterinary Times recently, Volume 42, Number 22, June 4 2012, p22. I'm a bit behind with my reading and only opened it today!